Off Topic The Politics Thread
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So you both prefer to rely on the judgement of the useless, lying, self-serving, out of touch politicians we have today than the people who's Country this actually is?
Fair enough.
I wouldn't want referendums on small issues and I'm not in favour of local referendums, as, with our democracy the way it is, we simply have to rely on our elected representatives. But on huge questions like Brexit and maybe returning to the death penalty for certain murderers like child killers, I'm in favour of letting the people decide.
For me, politicians are so out of touch with public opinion on too many issues and far too many of them are only really looking out for themselves whilst living in an elite bubble and are completely removed from the common people. Yes, we elect them and get to vote for someone else, but when there is so little faith these days in our useless elected representative of all parties, I'd much rather rely on the public opinion of my fellow Countrymen and women than rely on these twats to get it right.
Then presumably you would back another referendum on brexit when the final deal is known.
Yes, obviously. There are lots of intelligent MPs who do their job well. Have you gone outside recently? The average British adult isn’t the sort of person you’d trust to tie their own shoelaces.
"People who are not accountable in any way" to whom, Stan? Those who don't vote? Parliament? In a referendum, voters have no duty to be accountable to anyone because they are the electorate and can vote according to their conscience and interests. In the same way, in a General Election, a voter who votes for, say, the Monster Raving Looney Party is free to vote that way and not be accountable to anyone for his/her vote. That's democracy.
..yes, and because he'd thought by going to the EU and warning the Brussels bureaucrats about the growing groundswell of opinion in the UK for independence and against a increasingly federal Europe, they would listen and accommodate him. But they sent him back with his tail between his legs and from that moment on, the die was cast
I don’t think so. A competent Remain campaign would have won comfortably IMO.
The Remain campaign had virtually all of the political elite on it's side, Tory, Labour and LibDem. And the whole of the civil service at its disposal. Remain was the Establishment.
Leave were a rather motley crew, with Johnson/Gove not speaking to Farage's bunch.
Remain threw the kitchen sink at the campaign, including Project Fear, something of an embarrassment now that none of the catastophes warned of, actually transpired. I'd say Remain lost on the merits. In what respect do you feel Remain was incompetent?
I thought they did a fairly awful job of attracting floating voters like me. I can’t remember the specifics TBH.
Leave positioned themselves brilliant as the anti-establishment vote, fairly laughably really. How many people voted Leave because it was what Cameron didn’t want or “it can’t be worse than what we have now”? I’d guess a significant number.
Personally, I think it was difficult for Remain to work with the raw facts about the EU, including that it was costing us £8-9bn each year to be in a club that increasingly, with the the Franco-German axis and also Euro members collaborating together, told the UK what it could and could not do, and was deaf to any of its concerns.
They didn’t do a lot to communicate the benefits though, particularly on local issues (from memory). The whole thing was a bit London-centric.
Well, may be. I agree it was London-centric. And it succeeded in London - just pretty much nowhere in the shires of England or Wales.
Your original comment was fake and made up.......as I thought you were happy to admit.
Apologies if I’m incorrect in assuming that you made it up , ‘from your nut’
Totally this. The remain lot threw in everything and still the people wanted to leave. Sadly it seems that many of the remain lot want Brexit to fail so they can either get their undemocratic way or to say 'I told you so". This stance is idiotic.
I fear the EU like many others wants it all fail. Just look back at the negotiations and you can see they are doing absolutely every to complicate things.
We can see where they want all this to go....Undermine the government, May quits, election, Corbyn (
), then an attempt for a second referendum, more project fear,Blair.I hope for the sake of our country the government grows balls and tells them where they can stick their French bread and sausages.
Sadly he talks rubbish and brings up incorrect rubbish, although I do enjoy our chats about France.
Have I gone outside recently?
Come back to me when you can discuss things without being the stereotypical, ****ing patronising remain voter.
Oh..........and it was the "average British adult" who fought for your right to openly rubbish them.
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So that's fair comment but it doesn't explain the sheer negativity of the Remain campaign. Very little focus on areas where UK is the dominant influence, the benefits of science and education policies where we ran the show and examples of working in partnership with others. I am not saying it would have brought a different outcome but would have made a better debate than "we won't have an economy worse than Somalia's or have world war III - oh yes we bloody well will".
The debate on here is far more reasoned and informed than that bloomin' shambles and it was about the biggest political decision in 50 odd years. And this rant isn't about leave or remain Goldie - it's about the level of debate and information we are getting during campaigns. Jesus wept - the general election last year
But they cannot accept the result Col.
Maybe we could rerun the 97 election because they never told me we were going into a war. Or maybe we could replay the1982 final because I didn't like the result.