Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

BBC Breaking News
(@BBCBreaking)
UK economic growth is a better than expected 0.5% for the last three months of 2017, official figures show

This is an odd one as we have been told that due to Brexit it would only be 0.4%.....
mmmm
However I am sure that we cannot take these figures seriously as it goes against the argument. Maybe I "Don’t like facts which seem to contradict your facts?"

 

[ELLERS]

Also....
Why can't the media give Donald Trumpton a bit of credit?
I just heard a story on US news that said the economy is doing really well in the US due to Trumptons work. Sky then mention the US economy and they say Trump cant take all the credit it was also Obama!

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Did you not read the last paragraph? Don’t like facts which seem to contradict your facts? How very Faragist. Two sides to every story.

Do you not find it odd that with record employment levels, which you seem to think is due to rather than despite Brexit, we have record poverty? Isn’t Brexit meant to make things better for everybody?

Do you really think that employment is high and the £ strengthening because of Brexit, rather than despite it? It’s happening because people think it won’t be as bad as it could be, we’re heading towards a Brexit where we leave the EU in name only.

Which makes me relatively cheerful.

You need to stop deluding yourself mate. Or not, continue if it makes you happy.

Brexit hasn't taken place yet, so the positives and negatives in the economy aren't related to it, but to austerity and fiscal debt. Sure, there are some fluctuations resulting from the Brexit referendum - but we won't see the benefits of actual Brexit for several years.

You mention a "very soft Brexit" in an earlier post. Under most definitions, this would be staying in the Single Market and Customs Union. If this is what you're hoping for Stan, I feel you will be disappointed

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The think-tank Civitas has just analysed and reported on BBC News's fairness on Brexit coverage since the referendum. It will come as no surprise to Leave voters that Civitas found a massive BBC bias towards Remain. For example, the flagship Today radio program has not once examined the opportunities of Brexit since the referendum. Of 4,275 guests talking about the EU on Today between the years 2005 and 2015, only 3.2%...yes 3.2%, were supporters of Leave.

Yet the fat-cat, elite BBC management still defend its news as being objective and impartial.

Russia Today is more impartial than BBC News.

 

[sb_73]

Brexit hasn't taken place yet, so the positives and negatives in the economy aren't related to it, but to austerity and fiscal debt. Sure, there are some fluctuations resulting from the Brexit referendum - but we won't see the benefits of actual Brexit for several years.

You mention a "very soft Brexit" in an earlier post. Under most definitions, this would be staying in the Single Market and Customs Union. If this is what you're hoping for Stan, I feel you will be disappointed

I expect the agreement to de facto mean we stay in the customs union (not single market) which will address the Irish issue, but not explicitly so, to allow May to say ‘we have left’. We will continue to pay, in addition to what we have already agreed to pay, for access to the financial services market and possibly some other sectors. Again, to save face, this will not be presented as ‘staying in’.

Agree on the economic impacts of Brexit not happening yet. The only directly attributable result was the decline in £ immediately after the vote. And perhaps a small number of jobs being relocated to the EU from the City. Mark Carney reckons that growth in the UK, while still positive, is £200m a week lower than it would have been without the uncertainty, though how on Earth this is calculated is beyond me.

 

[sb_73]

The think-tank Civitas has just analysed and reported on BBC News's fairness on Brexit coverage since the referendum. It will come as no surprise to Leave voters that Civitas found a massive BBC bias towards Remain. For example, the flagship Today radio program has not once examined the opportunities of Brexit since the referendum. Of 4,275 guests talking about the EU on Today between the years 2005 and 2015, only 3.2%...yes 3.2%, were supporters of Leave.

Yet the fat-cat, elite BBC management still defend its news as being objective and impartial.

Russia Today is more impartial than BBC News.

Watch RT then, it too describes itself as impartial.

Civitas, the ‘classical liberal’ think tank, described as right of centre by the Daily Telegraph, which has called for the privatisation of the NHS?

Everyone has an agenda.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Watch RT then, it too describes itself as impartial.

Civitas, the ‘classical liberal’ think tank, described as right of centre by the Daily Telegraph, which has called for the privatisation of the NHS?

Everyone has an agenda.

What I quoted from Civitas's report were statistics not opinion. You like statistics, Stan. You're always quoting them. Are you disputing Civitas's statistics?

Agree the BBC News and RT are the same level of objectivity and impartiality.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I expect the agreement to de facto mean we stay in the customs union (not single market) which will address the Irish issue, but not explicitly so, to allow May to say ‘we have left’. We will continue to pay, in addition to what we have already agreed to pay, for access to the financial services market and possibly some other sectors. Again, to save face, this will not be presented as ‘staying in’.

Agree on the economic impacts of Brexit not happening yet. The only directly attributable result was the decline in £ immediately after the vote. And perhaps a small number of jobs being relocated to the EU from the City. Mark Carney reckons that growth in the UK, while still positive, is £200m a week lower than it would have been without the uncertainty, though how on Earth this is calculated is beyond me.

What we pay in respect of financial services will be interesting. Many businesses in the EU need access to the City of London and the products offered. I hope that May and Davies will be tough on this, and I think they will, because otherwise they'll have the Tory Eurosceptic lobby on their backs.

You put "staying in" in parenthesis but if we control our borders, inviting in who we need, make our own laws and can trade outside the EU in an unfettered way, then we are definitely out of the EU's closed shop. As I said yesterday, I would expect the UK to pay less year by year as it establishes trading deals worldwide. It's a sliding scale.

 

[ELLERS]

What I quoted from Civitas's report were statistics not opinion. You like statistics, Stan. You're always quoting them. Are you disputing Civitas's statistics?

Agree the BBC and RT are the same level of objectivity and impartiality.

Of course he is because he will not accept things.
Just on Sky News... their business guy was asked a question about economy and what we were told pre-Brexit, he said it has been 'resilient' and 'not gone' the way we were told it would (project fear fails again).

As for the BBC! I think we all know about their fairness.

 

[sb_73]

What I quoted from Civitas's report were statistics not opinion. You like statistics, Stan. You're always quoting them. Are you disputing Civitas's statistics?

Agree the BBC and RT are the same level of objectivity and impartiality.

Statistics from an unreliable source (which frankly is just about all sources, all have a bias) are unreliable. I’m not disputing them though. All I can say is when I hear Brexit discussed on BBC news programmes I seem to recall representatives of both sides involved. I’m sure that there is an inbuilt bias towards remain in the BBC, both news and arts, the kind of people who have careers in these areas - well educated, socially liberal - tend to be Remainers. Even if they try to be balanced I’m not sure if they can.

Corbynistas complain of BBC bias against him. Here’s an interesting article on it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ay-laura-keunssberg-andrew-marr-a7844826.html

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Hope you haven't got caught up in the Nutella riots, mate. Stay safe.

"Gendarmes were called when people began fighting and pushing one another.

"They are like animals. A woman had her hair pulled, an elderly lady took a box on her head, another had a bloody hand," one customer told French media.

A member of staff at one Intermarché shop in central France told the regional newspaper Le Progrès: "We were trying to get in between the customers but they were pushing us."

All of their stock was snapped up within 15 minutes and one customer was given a black eye."

I share your concern, Strolls, at DT's safety among these barbarians!

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Statistics from an unreliable source (which frankly is just about all sources, all have a bias) are unreliable. I’m not disputing them though. All I can say is when I hear Brexit discussed on BBC news programmes I seem to recall representatives of both sides involved. I’m sure that there is an inbuilt bias towards remain in the BBC, both news and arts, the kind of people who have careers in these areas - well educated, socially liberal - tend to be Remainers. Even if they try to be balanced I’m not sure if they can.

Corbynistas complain of BBC bias against him. Here’s an interesting article on it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ay-laura-keunssberg-andrew-marr-a7844826.html

Yes, I'd say that BBC News (as opposed to BBC Arts) is broadly anti-Corbyn. They certainly aren't Tory though. Mostly, they are New Labour.

 

[sb_73]

BBC Breaking News
(@BBCBreaking)
UK economic growth is a better than expected 0.5% for the last three months of 2017, official figures show

This is an odd one as we have been told that due to Brexit it would only be 0.4%.....
mmmm
However I am sure that we cannot take these figures seriously as it goes against the argument. Maybe I "Don’t like facts which seem to contradict your facts?"

It’s brilliant isn’t it, makes growth for 2017 about 1.7%

Germany 2.6%
US 2.3%
Even ****ing France, which apparently can’t build a bus shelter in less than a week, hits 1.8%

In the real world facts are comparative. We are doing worse than our peers, after outperforming them in growth for a long time, pre referendum. But it’s better than expected, why would that be? Global economic growth, it drags everyone with it, but some faster than others.

You set them up, I’ll knock them down.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Brexit hasn't taken place yet, so the positives and negatives in the economy aren't related to it, but to austerity and fiscal debt. Sure, there are some fluctuations resulting from the Brexit referendum - but we won't see the benefits of actual Brexit for several years.

You mention a "very soft Brexit" in an earlier post. Under most definitions, this would be staying in the Single Market and Customs Union. If this is what you're hoping for Stan, I feel you will be disappointed

Of course the Brexit vote has already had a negative impact on the British economy. The Pound took a massive hit and almost daily we see more evidence of this. Serious lack of staff in the NHS partly due people leaving the UK and fewer coming. Today both the UK Chancellor and Chairman of the Bank of England are admitting growth in the UK is slower than the rest of the World due to uncertainty about Brexit.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

It’s brilliant isn’t it, makes growth for 2017 about 1.7%

Germany 2.6%
US 2.3%
Even ****ing France, which apparently can’t build a bus shelter in less than a week, hits 1.8%

In the real world facts are comparative. We are doing worse than our peers, after outperforming them in growth for a long time, pre referendum. But it’s better than expected, why would that be? Global economic growth, it drags everyone with it, but some faster than others.

You set them up, I’ll knock them down.

Believe Sir
The mighty French can build almost anything a lot quicker and better than us
I have seen a bus shelter go up in 45 minutes plus they resurfaced 6km of road to my hamlet in a morning
In the afternoon they then fixed the bridge that connects me to civilisation
That includes breakfast and a two hour lunch

They have equipment that you won’t believe
A convoy of thunderbird type vehicles
One ate the old road and ground the aggregate to a new material
The second vehicle re constitutied the material and relaid it before the third vehicle finished the surfacing

A fourth vehicle team finished the job including putting up a new shelter at the top of the road

 

[ELLERS]

It’s brilliant isn’t it, makes growth for 2017 about 1.7%

Germany 2.6%
US 2.3%
Even ****ing France, which apparently can’t build a bus shelter in less than a week, hits 1.8%

In the real world facts are comparative. We are doing worse than our peers, after outperforming them in growth for a long time, pre referendum. But it’s better than expected, why would that be? Global economic growth, it drags everyone with it, but some faster than others.

You set them up, I’ll knock them down.

Ah bless you don't like all this positive news do you? Yes compared to some previous figures we are not doing as well due to the uncertainty. However my point is that we were told that the World would cave in on the UK if we voted to leave and that hasn't happened. Once we leave the failing union we will bounce back.
As for France they need to fight like animals, riots at supermarkets for knocking-off £1 or 2 from Nutella?
That says enough for me.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Of course the Brexit vote has already had a negative impact on the British economy. The Pound took a massive hit and almost daily we see more evidence of this. Serious lack of staff in the NHS partly due people leaving the UK and fewer coming. Today both the UK Chancellor and Chairman of the Bank of England are admitting growth in the UK is slower than the rest of the World due to uncertainty about Brexit.

You have to distinguish between the referendum vote and Brexit. Any vote making such a fundamental change brings the uncertainty to which you refer, particularly after Project Fear when the Prime Minister Cameron and his chancellor were predicting financial Armageddon in the UK. The markets were spooked. The catastrophe never happened of course and the pound, having sunk, is now rising strongly. Growth is slower, but has come down from a high level. Again, this is transition uncertainty not Brexit itself.

A major reason for EU staff not coming into the NHS is stringent new rules brought in, requiring staff to speak English. This was for reasons of safety and had nothing to do Brexit.

 

[sb_73]

Believe Sir
The mighty French can build almost anything a lot quicker and better than us
I have seen a bus shelter go up in 45 minutes plus they resurfaced 6km of road to my hamlet in a morning
In the afternoon they then fixed the bridge that connects me to civilisation
That includes breakfast and a two hour lunch

They have equipment that you won’t believe
A convoy of thunderbird type vehicles
One ate the old road and ground the aggregate to a new material
The second vehicle re constitutied the material and relaid it before the third vehicle finished the surfacing

A fourth vehicle team finished the job including putting up a new shelter at the top of the road

I saw that in Milan in 1989, they relaid a kilometre of a four lane road into the city overnight. I lived next to it, ****ing noisy but fast. Also when they did street cleaning they gave advance warning and any cars left parked in the way were simply picked up and dumped on the pavement. Wish they’d do that round here, the gutters are clogged.

 

[ELLERS]

Serious lack of staff in the NHS partly due people leaving the UK and fewer coming. Today both the UK Chancellor and Chairman of the Bank of England are admitting growth in the UK is slower than the rest of the World due to uncertainty about Brexit.

People have been leaving NHS for years. Under Blair and his great NHS they closed down the baby unit at our local hospital cause much stress and many problems. You cannot blame NHS on Brexit.

 

[sb_73]

Ah bless you don't like all this positive news do you? Yes we compared to some previous figures we are not doing as well due to the uncertainty. However my point is that we were told that the World would cave in on the UK if we voted to leave and that hasn't happened. Once we leave the failing union we will bounce back.
As for France they need to fight like animal, riots at supermarkets for knocking-off £1 or 2 from Nutella?
That says enough for me.

So your measure of success for Brexit is that the world didn’t collapse as predicted by people you didn’t believe anyway?

Oh, the vaulting ambition.....

The collapsing EU has overall economic growth of 2.2%, even including the laggards like the U.K.