Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Either we have referendums and abide by their results (the latest one was indeed advisory, but the Government made it clear that if we voted to leave, that is what would happen. It wasn't a difficult question.........stay or leave. I knew exactly what I was voting for, but hey, we've done all that to death).

Exactly Col but then they moved the goal posts, they needed excuses.
Interesting article which I will post at some point about how remoaners swear their allegiance to the EU, say all that voted Brexit were thick racists yet actually know FA about the EU and how it runs. They just didn't like Farage and said 'he is a racist so we will vote to stay'. They also go on about how little people knew about the EU pre Brexit.
That will shut a few up on here.

 

[Deleted.......]

Exactly Col but then they moved the goal posts, they needed excuses.
Interesting article which I will post at some point about how remoaners swear their allegiance to the EU, say all that voted Brexit were thick racists yet actually know FA about the EU and how it runs. They just didn't like Farage and said 'he is a racist so we will vote to stay'. They also go on about how little people knew about the EU pre Brexit.
That will shut a few up on here.

For me one of the most depressing things about the whole thing is the way we are split down the middle and some of the depictions of both sides. It's nonsense to think all Brexit voters were racist knuckle daggers with single digit iqs - very very few are. But equally not all remainers think the UK is a place we should be ashamed of, want unlimited immigration or believe we should sell our souls to Donald Tusk. We really need to move on - and too many in the media want to keep fuelling it. This is not aimed at you Ellers but rather in anticipation of your article!

 

[seagullhoop]

Funnily we were told by many that Farage was an 'idiot' and he didn't know what he was talking about and now the usual suspects hang on to his every word? funny that?

Oh please... no-one is doing anything of the sort... just pointing out that his position has changed.

 

[ELLERS]

For me one of the most depressing things about the whole thing is the way we are split down the middle and some of the depictions of both sides. It's nonsense to think all Brexit voters were racist knuckle daggers with single digit iqs - very very few are. But equally not all remainers think the UK is a place we should be ashamed of, want unlimited immigration or believe we should sell our souls to Donald Tusk. We really need to move on - and too many in the media want to keep fuelling it. This is not aimed at you Ellers but rather in anticipation of your article!

Agree DS, and in a few weeks we will move on and in a couple of years we will look back and laugh (or cry )

 

[seagullhoop]

Still don't know if you're in favour of referendums or not?

I think any vote needs the voters to be aware of what they are voting for - this vote clearly didn't achieve that, and was characterised by such a level of misinformation and obsfucation that it is bordering on criminal that it actually went ahead at all. As I have said before I don't think there was a simple binary yes/no answer to what is and was such a nuanced question.

Whether I'm in favour of them or not is fairly irrelevant since I have little to no control over whether they happen. It's a bit like asking whether I'm in favour of rain.

 

[seagullhoop]

Exactly Col but then they moved the goal posts, they needed excuses.
Interesting article which I will post at some point about how remoaners swear their allegiance to the EU, say all that voted Brexit were thick racists yet actually know FA about the EU and how it runs. They just didn't like Farage and said 'he is a racist so we will vote to stay'. They also go on about how little people knew about the EU pre Brexit.
That will shut a few up on here.

I'm sure we can all find an article to support anything... a case in point...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leave-voters-admit-they-are-racist-in-new-research-a3646421.html

 

[rangercol]

I think any vote needs the voters to be aware of what they are voting for - this vote clearly didn't achieve that, and was characterised by such a level of misinformation and obsfucation that it is bordering on criminal that it actually went ahead at all. As I have said before I don't think there was a simple binary yes/no answer to what is and was such a nuanced question.

Whether I'm in favour of them or not is fairly irrelevant since I have little to no control over whether they happen. It's a bit like asking whether I'm in favour of rain.

With respect, that's a very strange response.
Also, this misconception that those of us who voted to leave didn't know what we were voting for is simply not true.

So, would you be in favour of a second referendum?

 

[ELLERS]

I'm sure we can all find an article to support anything... a case in point...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leave-voters-admit-they-are-racist-in-new-research-a3646421.html

That's all remoaners do?

I think any vote needs the voters to be aware of what they are voting for - this vote clearly didn't achieve that,

Yes it did, In/out it's quite simple. It's nearly as stupid as saying 'Blair didn't tell us he would take us into an illegal war otherwise we should have re-run the election?
All some people are doing is complicating it. If we had broken down every little thing about the EU we would have been doing this for a 1000 years.
If you cannot understand the difference between 'Stay' and 'Leave' then that is your problem. I think the majority of leavers knew things would be tough for a time and we would have to adapt. Most I have listened to confirm they were willing to take a hit/risk to get out, however trying to stop people getting what they voted for (and won) is simply not accepting the democratic vote.
TBH it's getting a bit boring now. No matter what we say, people dismiss it.
I will be looking forward to a day we are not part of the EU

 

[rangercol]

That's all remoaners do?
Yes it did, In/out it's quite simple. It's nearly as stupid as saying 'Blair didn't tell us he would take us into an illegal war otherwise we should have re-run the election?
All some people are doing is complicating it. If we had broken down every little thing about the EU we would have been doing this for a 1000 years.
If you cannot understand the difference between 'Stay' and 'Leave' then that is your problem. I think the majority of leavers knew things would be tough for a time and we would have to adapt. Most I have listened to confirm that were willing to take a hit/risk to get out, however trying to stop people getting what they voted for (and won) is simply not accepting the democratic vote.
TBH it's getting a bit boring now. No matter what we say, people dismiss it.
I will be looking forward to a day we are not part of the EU

Exactly.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Zzzzzzzzzzz
You will be okay, you can live in France and come back to the UK when you need NHS or Dentist, or maybe cheaper food or may I say it QPR.
Lots of people live in EU don't want Brexit because it will upset their way of life so 'F22k' the ones that live in the UK.
No chance, things will change and people don't like it

Why I contribute by paying my taxes
I just choose not to like with people who believe in a Great Britain that was lost decades ago in every way. From direct Farming stock it became almost impossible to sustain the great British life I once enjoyed. I have always blamed greed for this as we all watched the destruction of local rural communities by city folk buying up holiday cottages without having the slightest idea of what the countryside is or means.

That’s where it started without a doubt for me. 35 years later one of our old tied cottages went for £700,000. It used to house our five collies. So I went south to restore the life I know and knew for a fraction of the living costs.

You seem a very angry person who wants England to be something it will never be.

It’s a comospolitan country and happened very quickly because we sold it. It’s you that needs to adjust imo

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

That's all remoaners do?
Yes it did, In/out it's quite simple. It's nearly as stupid as saying 'Blair didn't tell us he would take us into an illegal war otherwise we should have re-run the election?
All some people are doing is complicating it. If we had broken down every little thing about the EU we would have been doing this for a 1000 years.
If you cannot understand the difference between 'Stay' and 'Leave' then that is your problem. I think the majority of leavers knew things would be tough for a time and we would have to adapt. Most I have listened to confirm they were willing to take a hit/risk to get out, however trying to stop people getting what they voted for (and won) is simply not accepting the democratic vote.
TBH it's getting a bit boring now. No matter what we say, people dismiss it.
I will be looking forward to a day we are not part of the EU

It’s the nature of the things and the way people like you say them imo
We won’t be a part of the EU we will be own people but look what people we have become... making war and misery on other countries while consuming too much
We invented the throw away society of Europe and I cannot support that or live with people who cannot admit that or in the worse case attempt to blame other people for doing so. It’s a dinosaur regime and a typical Anglo Saxon gene pool that is frankly disgusting to me.

 

[seagullhoop]

That's all remoaners do?

Oh come on. Said the individual that posted links to articles supporting his perspective? Even for you that's a stunning lack of self awareness.

Yes it did, In/out it's quite simple. It's nearly as stupid as saying 'Blair didn't tell us he would take us into an illegal war otherwise we should have re-run the election?
All some people are doing is complicating it. If we had broken down every little thing about the EU we would have been doing this for a 1000 years.
If you cannot understand the difference between 'Stay' and 'Leave' then that is your problem. I think the majority of leavers knew things would be tough for a time and we would have to adapt. Most I have listened to confirm they were willing to take a hit/risk to get out, however trying to stop people getting what they voted for (and won) is simply not accepting the democratic vote.
TBH it's getting a bit boring now. No matter what we say, people dismiss it.
I will be looking forward to a day we are not part of the EU

It is complicated - making it a simple in/out question without providing understanding of the outcomes is what led less educated people to believe that leaving the EU would stem immigration and the NHS would be better funded.

Nevertheless.. I just can't accept massive generalisation backed up by little in the way of evidence - I have repeatedly made the point that this government is taking a cavalier and deeply muddled approach to what is the most important political and social process in our lifetime. Mainly you have offered the 'we won so get used to it', 'the vote is done so that's that' and 'remoaner' - it's not exactly scintillating repartee, and it's just not addressing questions that need answers.

Agreed it is a little tedious, we really aren't getting anywhere - we disagree... most fundamentally about what constitutes 'democracy'.

Time will tell how things will pan out, my hope is we won't end up regretting decisions taken based on dogma and misinformation - what I'm pretty sure of is that the people charged with making this work wont be the ones to suffer if it all goes wrong... they will walk away with knighthoods and well paid directorships.

Sadly, for the rest of us, we'll have to live with the consequences.

 

[seagullhoop]

With respect, that's a very strange response.
Also, this misconception that those of us who voted to leave didn't know what we were voting for is simply not true.

So, would you be in favour of a second referendum?

Yep. Brexit means Brexit... sadly that still doesn't mean anything hover many times it gets trotted out.

People voted for lots of reasons... the idea that people voted for a unified vision of Brexit is naive.

I'd be in favour of a final in/out vote on the deal offered... give people the opportunity to vote on the facts not the fantasy.

 

[rangercol]

Yep. Brexit means Brexit... sadly that still doesn't mean anything hover many times it gets trotted out.

People voted for lots of reasons... the idea that people voted for a unified vision of Brexit is naive.

I'd be in favour of a final in/out vote on the deal offered... give people the opportunity to vote on the facts not the fantasy.

No, Brexit means leaving the EU. That's what I voted for. That's the question we were asked.

So you are in favour of referendums?
If you got your wish and that vote went against your wishes, what then?

 

[seagullhoop]

No, Brexit means leaving the EU. That's what I voted for. That's the question we were asked.

So you are in favour of referendums?
If you got your wish and that vote went against your wishes, what then?

Read what I said.

 

[rangercol]

Read what I said.

Nope. Haven't answered mate.

 

[seagullhoop]

Nope. Haven't answered mate.

Can't help you then.

 

[rangercol]

Can't help you then.

Well you would if you answered the question.
I'll try again.............if you get your wish and there's a referendum on the final deal and it doesn't go the way you'd like, will you want another one?

 

[seagullhoop]

Well you would if you answered the question.
I'll try again.............if you get your wish and there's a referendum on the final deal and it doesn't go the way you'd like, will you want another one?

"I'd be in favour of a final in/out vote on the deal offered... give people the opportunity to vote on the facts not the fantasy."

 

[rangercol]

"I'd be in favour of a final in/out vote on the deal offered... give people the opportunity to vote on the facts not the fantasy."

And what if they vote against your wishes? Would you want another one? Maybe re-word it or something?