Off Topic The Politics Thread

[bobmid]

How many MPs have you got!

Frankly Bob I'm tired of all of them and am reacting badly. Ignore me for a bit. My mood will be lifted by the rib of beef I am preparing, and the Cotes du Rhone I have just opened.

I think that's me outta here too mate. Enjoy

 

[QPR Oslo]

I had a stupid daydream yesterday of some kind of 'progressive alliance' between moderate Labour, left One Nation remainer Tories, Lib Dems, perhaps some SNPs which would be brought together by a non Brexit or second referendum, commitment to a more balanced economy and a dislike of ideology. Of course it wouldn't work because these gimps are so tied to their parties. And it lacks any obvious leaders. But perhaps edging closer as Corbyn's mob prepares to deselect moderate labour MPs (Liz Kendall threatened with this 48 hours after the election), and talk of a new centre left party gathering steam.

May looking increasingly isolated, her vision of Brexit shared now only by the usual nutters, even Davis and Johnson looking at something more Norwegian.

Welcome!

 

[Stroller]

The proper, socialist position on the EU should be instant hard Brexit, and that's what I think Corbyn and his ilk would like, they are old Bennites, and he thought that the socialist paradise could be delivered in a country completely cut off from the rest of the world, especially the international financial system. Good luck with that, though Kim Jong Un and his forebears are giving it a good go. I hope the Labour Party does split, it is no longer the broad church that I grew up with, and then we can see what a truly socialist manifesto looks like. McDonnell of course is a Marxist, though he seems a little embarrassed to admit it sometimes.

They have done their job, broken the back of a myopic austerity policy which exclusively attacked the public sector and disadvantaged and left the privileged untouched. Now they can take their old fashioned ideas back to the support Hamas and Maduro rallies as far as I'm concerned. I finally got round to seeing Corbyn's Glastonbury performance, which I see he is repeating wherever he can find a mob. He's quite good at chanting slogans and populism probably because he believes it.

Sorry, I've just heard a victim of the Grenfell fire going on about class war and collectivisation on the wireless. I'm sick of the exploitation and politicisation of this tragedy, by primarily the Labour left. Abbott was given a remarkably easy ride on the Broadcasting House programme this morning, and was singing the same tune, much as she was after the attack on the Muslims in Finsbury, but never after an Islamic terror attack.

I voted Labour last time, but I won't again if I think this version stands a chance of winning.

Bloody hell Stan, you've gone all Daily Mail on me, although even that esteemed publication would stop short of calling the Glastonbury crowd a mob, I think. Let's see how Corbyn uses his new-found power. I'd like to see him offer jobs to some of the abler Blairites, but it would be on his terms and if they decide that they can't work with him, they should leave. I'd quite like to see a new centrist party emerge, because I think that it would be the right wing of the Tory party that would end up being marginalised.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

I

It's not the specific laws mate, it's who makes them.

You are aware I take it that most European laws leave a wide margin of discretion as to how the principles are effected - if there are any that you don't like perhaps your beef should be with our own lawmakers

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

If Corbyn starts deselecting Blairite MP's to put his own candidates in, it seems highly probable that the Blairites will form a new party - there's talk today of funding coming from Blair or JK Rowling. The deselection process may purify Corbyn's Labour, but a competing Labour 2 Party will give him a helluva headache at by-elections and a general election

You can always hope Goldie but the party that looks like shattering into 317 pieces is the one which has the largest number of seats in the Commons - well for now at least.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

You can always hope Goldie but the party that looks like shattering into 317 pieces is the one which has the largest number of seats in the Commons - well for now at least.

Yes, could be. I'd say May's positioned has strengthened somewhat in the last week, though from an exceptionally weak post-election base. Corbyn's next move re his recalcitrants will be fascinating. He wants complete control. My bet is we will see some blood letting.

 

[sb_73]

Bloody hell Stan, you've gone all Daily Mail on me, although even that esteemed publication would stop short of calling the Glastonbury crowd a mob, I think. Let's see how Corbyn uses his new-found power. I'd like to see him offer jobs to some of the abler Blairites, but it would be on his terms and if they decide that they can't work with him, they should leave. I'd quite like to see a new centrist party emerge, because I think that it would be the right wing of the Tory party that would end up being marginalised.

I'm a contrarian, you should know that by now. It's their time (brief I suspect) in the sun, their turn to be examined in detail. Plus a little light reading of the backgrounds of the Labour leadership leads me to believe that even if I thought everything they said was perfect and deliverable, they don't have the competence or experience to deliver it.

 

[Stroller]

I'm a contrarian, you should know that by now. It's their time (brief I suspect) in the sun, their turn to be examined in detail. Plus a little light reading of the backgrounds of the Labour leadership leads me to believe that even if if thought everything they said was perfect and deliverable, they don't have the competence or experience to deliver it.

Nevermind the individuals or their backgrounds, wouldn't you agree that this seems to be a bit like a watershed? The Tories and the right-wing press are **** scared. I have no axe to grind for Corbyn or McDonnell as individuals, but there seems to me to be a change going on, and I find it exciting.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Yes, could be. I'd say May's positioned has strengthened somewhat in the last week, though from an exceptionally weak post-election base. Corbyn's next move re his recalcitrants will be fascinating. He wants complete control. My bet is we will see some blood letting.

Nothing like an amazing coincidence of fluke events to make someone believe that they can walk on water. As for Theresa, dead woman walking methinks. Why do you think her position has improved?

 

[West London Willy]

I think that the extreme elements on both sides are being shown for what they are - best highlighted by what's going on in the US at the moment. You have a president who is clearly mentally ill, but surrounded by people whose desire is to stay in power, so they enable him at every opportunity. You also have a very vocal left who wanted to ensure that their preferred candidate got the nomination ahead of the competent ones (specifically screwing Bernie Sanders in the process) which meant that they also became unelectable. And Social Media and the press just perpetuate the split.

We're not yet quite that bad over here, but unless we want to follow the US, we have to rejet the extremes on both sides, and start to speak out for the centre 80% of the population whose views are not so hate-filled or hate-fuelled. Neither Labour or Tory do anything for these people, so the sooner we have a credible centrist third party, the better.

 

[sb_73]

Nevermind the individuals or their backgrounds, wouldn't you agree that this seems to be a bit like a watershed? The Tories and the right-wing press are **** scared. I have no axe to grind for Corbyn or McDonnell as individuals, but there seems to me to be a change going on, and I find it exciting.

I found it exciting for a couple of days after the election, but now it just feels like chaos. I think the government will hang on for a few years because the opposition is still weak and the Labour leadership is so inherently extreme it won't attract any cross party support. So we have a weak government, with no plan or direction, trapped into following expedient policies it doesn't really believe in (even if I prefer softer Brexit and loosening the grip of austerity, if the implementers don't really believe in them they won't do them well) coupled with a weak, ideological opposition. The divisions feel even deeper than before. My dream of something based more on collaboration and cooperation is obviously a stupid one. More fool me.

Nearly a month on and my new local Labour MP still hasn't got a constituency office set up, his only contact details are care of the House of Commons.......or the office of his Tory predecessor, which is stockpiling constituents issues until the new boy is ready to look at them. My wife took down the contact details of the old Tory MP at the Citizens Advice Bureau where she does a shift, but they had to put them back up in the absence of anything from the actual MP. This is entirely consistent with the level of competence I would expect from a Corbyn administration. My MP is probably busy in indoctrination sessions, to make sure he is ideologically sound and ready for a front bench position in a couple of weeks, the next time 20% of Labour MPs vote against the leadership line. It's obviously a brilliant brainwashing programme, he stood as a strong pro European in a solid Remainer constituency, but failed to vote for the Umunnanana Single Market amendment. [HASHTAG]#spinelesscareerist[/HASHTAG]

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Nothing like an amazing coincidence of fluke events to make someone believe that they can walk on water. As for Theresa, dead woman walking methinks. Why do you think her position has improved?

However much it may have been criticised, the deal with the DUP gives her a clear majority. She can limp along for a couple of years to deal with the bulk of Brexit. If Corbyn gets into an internal battle for the control of the Labour Party, May's hand should strengthen.

 

[sb_73]

However much it may have been criticised, the deal with the DUP gives her a clear majority. She can limp along for a couple of years to deal with the bulk of Brexit. If Corbyn gets into an internal battle for the control of the Labour Party, May's hand should strengthen.

I think the government will last at least two years, but I am not so sure about May, she really is a toxic brand now, with her senior ministers openly briefing against her e.g. on public sector pay. Apparently she called up Cameron to ask for advice during the DUP negotiations, after ignoring him (not necessarily a bad idea) for a year. He was astonished. I suspect a caretaker leader/PM, specifically to get to the end of the Brexit negotiations may be planned, perhaps Davis, if he can still focus mainly on the EU, with more government by Cabinet. Which is pretty scary when you look at the people involved. I have a feeling that May is only staying on because of a sense of duty/obligation, how much humiliation can she take?

Macron behaving in an oddly regal manner in France for a liberal.......seems to think he is de Gaulle reincarnate. Watch out for the jackals Manny!

 

[ELLERS]

I also think May is weak and I don't see her lasting long, however it would be a disaster if 'comedy Corbyn' ever became PM.

 

[West London Willy]

I think the government will last at least two years, but I am not so sure about May, she really is a toxic brand now, with her senior ministers openly briefing against her e.g. on public sector pay. Apparently she called up Cameron to ask for advice during the DUP negotiations, after ignoring him (not necessarily a bad idea) for a year. He was astonished. I suspect a caretaker leader/PM, specifically to get to the end of the Brexit negotiations may be planned, perhaps Davis, if he can still focus mainly on the EU, with more government by Cabinet. Which is pretty scary when you look at the people involved. I have a feeling that May is only staying on because of a sense of duty/obligation, how much humiliation can she take?

To balance it out, probably only Churchill had more of a challenge this early into the job.

There's the whole 'EU negotiation' thing, the 'Jezza being more popular than the Beatles' thing, the 'mad jihadists' thing, and - effectively out of the blue - Grenfell Tower. That may be the camel's spine breaker, rather ironically because it's the one she really had no control over. Enquiry notwithstanding, the timing of that for her couldn't have been worse, and it's been played rather cynically / astutely (delete as applicable) by Momentum and Labour.

I actually do have some sympathy for her. No sane person would want to be in her kitten heels right now...

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I also think May is weak and I don't see her lasting long, however it would be a disaster if 'comedy Corbyn' ever became PM.

Don't worry. Boris will do fine probably maybe.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I think the government will last at least two years, but I am not so sure about May, she really is a toxic brand now, with her senior ministers openly briefing against her e.g. on public sector pay. Apparently she called up Cameron to ask for advice during the DUP negotiations, after ignoring him (not necessarily a bad idea) for a year. He was astonished. I suspect a caretaker leader/PM, specifically to get to the end of the Brexit negotiations may be planned, perhaps Davis, if he can still focus mainly on the EU, with more government by Cabinet. Which is pretty scary when you look at the people involved. I have a feeling that May is only staying on because of a sense of duty/obligation, how much humiliation can she take?

Macron behaving in an oddly regal manner in France for a liberal.......seems to think he is de Gaulle reincarnate. Watch out for the jackals Manny!

My understanding is that the Tories won't risk a change of leader in case it leads to a vote of no confidence and another election. That's one of May's few advantages. I think she's set her mind on delivering a successful Brexit - if she gets replaced thereafter, she will have gone some way to redeeming herself and restoring such reputation as she had pre-election. Davis would be best employed on Brexit full time in my view.

I'm hoping for the EU's sake, that Macron and Merkel see the gross faults in the organisation and the detachment of the wealthy and unelected bureaucrats from ordinary people, and start reforms.

Problems with migration from North Africa could become acute this summer. UN stating today that 7 in 10 migrants are economic not refugees. People trafficker dons are making millions. If tolerant Italy is asking for the boats to be turned back, it must be the beginning of the end for European absorbing all-comers

 

[ELLERS]

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[ELLERS]

Don't worry. Boris will do fine probably maybe.

I like Boris

 

[seagullhoop]

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'Champagne Socialists' - because the wealthy mustn't support policies to benefit people less fortunate than themselves

...and while I'm at it...

'Politics of Envy' - because the poor mustn't support policies that will benefit them directly