Off Topic The Politics Thread

[West London Willy]

Yes I get the second point but it's the principle I have an issue with- this ideology drilled into us that it's a negative to strive for free/cheap education, nationalised transport etc. and stripping down public services to sell off is somehow a good thing, but then writing a huge cheque to Norn Iron is somehow in our best interests. It doesn't strike me as very free market economics.

I'm sure most if not all the cash will improve things for the people of NI which is obviously a good thing, but I don't see how it can be anything close to the best use of that money given it's only happening because May has put herself in the predicaments of having to buy support.

Again, this isn't just a Conservative thing. Despite their protests, it was Labour who introduced the PFI partnerships, which have been shown t be probably the most frivolous waste of public money ever imagined by a Government.

But the fact that this money has been announced as part of the partnership doesn't mean they money wasn't going there anyway. It could easily be a bit of creative accounting by the Tories to sweeten the deal. After all - aren't Labour always saying that money the Tories promise has often already been allocated? Unless your'e saying they are wrong about that, then this could easily be another instance. After all - the problem of the border has been known for a while now, I'm certain plans would have been put in place to finance it.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Again, this isn't just a Conservative thing. Despite their protests, it was Labour who introduced the PFI partnerships, which have been shown t be probably the most frivolous waste of public money ever imagined by a Government.

But the fact that this money has been announced as part of the partnership doesn't mean they money wasn't going there anyway. It could easily be a bit of creative accounting by the Tories to sweeten the deal. After all - aren't Labour always saying that money the Tories promise has often already been allocated? Unless your'e saying they are wrong about that, then this could easily be another instance. After all - the problem of the border has been known for a while now, I'm certain plans would have been put in place to finance it.

Sorry I don't get the thing about the border. They've said how the £1bn will be allocated. It doesn't sound like the sort of dough they'd allocate for such things in NI normally.

I don't doubt the Labour of the past did some terrible things financially but it doesn't excuse this. I don't see how Tory spending can be planned in advance given the various u-turns such as now not changing the triple lock and not means testing Winter fuel payments. They're making it up as they go along.

 

[Stroller]

Again, this isn't just a Conservative thing. Despite their protests, it was Labour who introduced the PFI partnerships, which have been shown t be probably the most frivolous waste of public money ever imagined by a Government.

But the fact that this money has been announced as part of the partnership doesn't mean they money wasn't going there anyway. It could easily be a bit of creative accounting by the Tories to sweeten the deal. After all - aren't Labour always saying that money the Tories promise has often already been allocated? Unless your'e saying they are wrong about that, then this could easily be another instance. After all - the problem of the border has been known for a while now, I'm certain plans would have been put in place to finance it.

Not a bribe at all then.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Tories have a strong sense of survival, even the Anna Soubry's of the party. Unless May does something else damn stupid, I doubt anyone internally will rock the boat in the next two years. Davis isn't looking for it yet. Boris has been knocked back.

 

[West London Willy]

Sorry I don't get the thing about the border. They've said how the £1bn will be allocated. It doesn't sound like the sort of dough they'd allocate for such things in NI normally.

I don't doubt the Labour of the past did some terrible things financially but it doesn't excuse this. I don't see how Tory spending can be planned in advance given the various u-turns such as now not changing the triple lock and not means testing Winter fuel payments. They're making it up as they go along.

Welcome to a coalition.

 

[West London Willy]

Not a bribe at all then.

Nobody outside the negotiation team knows for sure what it is. However, if it IS purely a bribe, then it's a far too obvious one, and I can't see anyone trying that on at the moment - especially not Theresa May, whose position is precarious enough without pouring fuel on the fire.

 

[Stroller]

Tories have a strong sense of survival, even the Anna Soubry's of the party. Unless May does something else damn stupid, I doubt anyone internally will rock the boat in the next two years. Davis isn't looking for it yet. Boris has been knocked back.

May has made herself incredibly unpopular and frankly just doesn't look up to the job. The DUP fiasco is just one more in a long line of ****-ups. Do you really think that the Tory party will sit by as its poll ratings plummet and by-election defeats mount? I still think she will go soon, but who will take over? I saw this the other day, which is another indicator of Brexit unpopularity........

You must log in or register to see images

This would suggest that the Tories' best chance of winning the next election is to elect a 'soft Brexit' leader. I couldn't see Hammond - who I saw hilariously described as 'making John Major look like Liberace' - being popular, so probably Rudd or Davidson.

 

[rangercol]

Difficult to say. I don't think this Labour Party would have done something this desperate.

You're wrong.
Again, do some research and see what previous labour governments were prepared to do.
It's nothing new.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You're wrong.
Again, do some research and see what previous labour governments were prepared to do.
It's nothing new.

That's why I said this Labour government.

 

[rangercol]

Welcome to a coalition.

Which, many on here on the left would get all the time if their chosen method of general election voting were implemented: proportional representation.

 

[rangercol]

That's why I said this Labour government.

They're not in government.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Which, many on here on the left would get all the time if their chosen method of general election voting were implemented: proportional representation.

I don't think calls for a more representative voting system are solely from 'the left'.

 

[Stroller]

Nobody outside the negotiation team knows for sure what it is. However, if it IS purely a bribe, then it's a far too obvious one, and I can't see anyone trying that on at the moment - especially not Theresa May, whose position is precarious enough without pouring fuel on the fire.

I think Elliot knows....

You must log in or register to see media

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

They're not in government.

Sorry, freudian slip.

 

[seagullhoop]

May has made herself incredibly unpopular and frankly just doesn't look up to the job. The DUP fiasco is just one more in a long line of ****-ups. Do you really think that the Tory party will sit by as its poll ratings plummet and by-election defeats mount? I still think she will go soon, but who will take over? I saw this the other day, which is another indicator of Brexit unpopularity........

You must log in or register to see images

This would suggest that the Tories' best chance of winning the next election is to elect a 'soft Brexit' leader. I couldn't see Hammond - who I saw hilariously described as 'making John Major look like Liberace' - being popular, so probably Rudd or Davidson.

Not Rudd - she only has a majority of 392 in Hastings - I have read she is considered far too vulnerable.

Are Davidson's Scottish Tories considered part of the Westminster cabal?

I'm not sure there is a stand out candidate - they're all pretty toxic, or lacking the necessary gravitas - if it were to happen, my guess would be either Davis or a relative unknown, like Cameron was at the time.

Odds are here: https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

May has made herself incredibly unpopular and frankly just doesn't look up to the job. The DUP fiasco is just one more in a long line of ****-ups. Do you really think that the Tory party will sit by as its poll ratings plummet and by-election defeats mount? I still think she will go soon, but who will take over? I saw this the other day, which is another indicator of Brexit unpopularity........

You must log in or register to see images

This would suggest that the Tories' best chance of winning the next election is to elect a 'soft Brexit' leader. I couldn't see Hammond - who I saw hilariously described as 'making John Major look like Liberace' - being popular, so probably Rudd or Davidson.

Well, time will tell. But a week is a long time in politics and with everyone's focus on the vital Brexit negotiations, critical eyes may move away from May so long as she doesn't rock any boats or drop an anchor on her foot. My money is still on two years minimum. The DUP deal is only a ****-up through the eyes of the left wing. The DUP will toe the line now, not just because of the money (which will also appease Sinn Fein) but also because Corbyn and MacDonnell are well publicised IRA supporters, and the the DUP would rather disembowel themselves than see Jez as PM.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Well, time will tell. But a week is a long time in politics and with everyone's focus on the vital Brexit negotiations, critical eyes may move away from May so long as she doesn't rock any boats or drop an anchor on her foot. My money is still on two years minimum. The DUP deal is only a ****-up through the eyes of the left wing. The DUP will toe the line now, not just because of the money (which will also appease Sinn Fein) but also because Corbyn and MacDonnell are well publicised IRA supporters, and the the DUP would rather disembowel themselves than see Jez as PM.

Disagree. I'd bet there are plenty of moderate Tory MPs who see it for what it is, as grateful as they are that it keeps them in guaranteed work for now.

 

[bobmid]

It all stinks of ****e if u ask me and we all put up with it! Tories Labour lib dems they are all full of it

 

[Stroller]

Well, time will tell. But a week is a long time in politics and with everyone's focus on the vital Brexit negotiations, critical eyes may move away from May so long as she doesn't rock any boats or drop an anchor on her foot. My money is still on two years minimum. The DUP deal is only a ****-up through the eyes of the left wing. The DUP will toe the line now, not just because of the money (which will also appease Sinn Fein) but also because Corbyn and MacDonnell are well publicised IRA supporters, and the the DUP would rather disembowel themselves than see Jez as PM.

I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks that the DUP deal was a smart move on May's behalf (and I don't just converse with other lefties - most of my friends are pretty reactionary, but I can't be arsed to find new ones). It was dumb for the very reason you give, that they wouldn't have let Corbyn in anyway, so chucking 1.5 billion quid at them was a waste of the fruits of the magic money tree. A coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers - brilliant.

 

[seagullhoop]

Well, time will tell. But a week is a long time in politics and with everyone's focus on the vital Brexit negotiations, critical eyes may move away from May so long as she doesn't rock any boats or drop an anchor on her foot. My money is still on two years minimum. The DUP deal is only a ****-up through the eyes of the left wing. The DUP will toe the line now, not just because of the money (which will also appease Sinn Fein) but also because Corbyn and MacDonnell are well publicised IRA supporters, and the the DUP would rather disembowel themselves than see Jez as PM.

That or the DUP will keep coming back for more... that is how extortion works right?

It's right that Sinn Féin have acknowledged the extra cash as a good thing, but they are refusing to play ball until there is an inquiry into the Renewable Heat Incentive scandal - and frankly it doesn't bode well that there is clear evidence from people in her own party that Arlene Foster first blocked an attempt to close the scheme and then attempted tried to remove her name from documents.

Still, with a party that corrupt holding the balance of power we'll be fine... won't we?