Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Contradicting word on the street here in Denmark.

Industrial and Engineering companies that have a long standing relationship with the UK have been shedding jobs by the bucket load. Problem is that those people are now moving into renewables which has been missing resources for years.
People in general do not want to see the UK taken to task and have its pants taken down by the EU - there is of course far more affinity towards the UK than Eastwards.
However, the strongest belief is that Brexit may well be the kick up the arse that the EU needed, that reformation is on the way. The sad thing will be that the UK will be very much on the outside of that.
There is a far greater fear of Trump and what he does with pharma and Global trade than what May will be doing.

View from the outside, how could it come to pass that the greatest group of countries in the world, could end up with the ****s on offer. Not one worth a carrot, either all media savvy and no substance or antiquated views based on fairy tales rather than something coherent and close to reality.

Legalisation of pot, coke and all the rest wouls save so many lives and families it is untrue - this may look like a contradiction but it is such a no brainer that it cannot class as anyone's policy.
 
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GoldhawkRd said:
Fair comment, Tooting. Probably both are true. There are plenty of examples of men leaving their families to live in poor conditions to get a better wage than in their home countries. But there are also those who have a high enough standard of living already to pay London residential rates. And I agree that the European families by and large integrate well, although there are some areas in England, eg around Cambridge where the majority of the population are Polish, and local shops and language is Polish. Too much change for the indigenous population in one abrupt go.

Tony Blair complains about Brexit, but his ridiculous unlimited numbers immigration policy was fuel to its fire.
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Have to ask this - can you rank the immigration problem for me from high to low, I'm confused as the UK has always had the opportunity for border control, Brexit was a cry for help, of that no doubt, but are you going to get that help?:

the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians?
the French, Germans, Danes, Americans?
the Spanish, Italian, Greek?
the Rumanians, Somalians, Nigerians,Syrians?
the Pakistanis, Bangladeshis?
 
Steelmonkey said:
Orwell was years ahead of the game in anticipating what is coming, and reading his stuff can certainly lead to some form of paranoia, but, as Kurt Cobain once sang, just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you!

It certainly is galling the amount of lies all the parties are peddling out during this campaign, and it's becoming increasingly more difficult to find the truth amongst all the bullshit spouting out of their mouths. Still over three weeks of this to go, and I'm no wiser as to who to vote for....
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I'm glad I have been disenfranchised -

Somehow do not qualify to vote in either Britain, Spain or Denmark at General Elections but can vote in all local ones as I still pay tax in all three- go figure that one out!!!!

Tell me again how many lost their lives for me not to vote due to beaurocracy - (I hate that word, Stan please correct me, I'm not going to check it!)
 
danishqp said:
Have to ask this - can you rank the immigration problem for me from high to low, I'm confused as the UK has always had the opportunity for border control, Brexit was a cry for help, of that no doubt, but are you going to get that help?:

the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians?
the French, Germans, Danes, Americans?
the Spanish, Italian, Greek?
the Rumanians, Somalians, Nigerians,Syrians?
the Pakistanis, Bangladeshis?
Click to expand...

For me, it all went wrong when it changed from Rumania to Romania. Those were simpler times.
 
danishqp said:
I'm glad I have been disenfranchised -

Somehow do not qualify to vote in either Britain, Spain or Denmark at General Elections but can vote in all local ones as I still pay tax in all three- go figure that one out!!!!

Tell me again how many lost their lives for me not to vote due to beaurocracy - (I hate that word, Stan please correct me, I'm not going to check it!)
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Bureaucracy. Can't you afford spellcheck?

You need an accountant mate. No taxation without representation!
 
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danishqp said:
Have to ask this - can you rank the immigration problem for me from high to low, I'm confused as the UK has always had the opportunity for border control, Brexit was a cry for help, of that no doubt, but are you going to get that help?:

the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians?
the French, Germans, Danes, Americans?
the Spanish, Italian, Greek?
the Rumanians, Somalians, Nigerians,Syrians?
the Pakistanis, Bangladeshis?
Click to expand...

"Old" Europe and the USA was never a problem. The newer nations coming into the EU, while producing some excellent people (partic Poles), has been a problem because of numbers and the divergent state of the economies as compared with the UK.

Outside the EU - the most obvious problem is lack of integration of some communities. Pakistan Muslims are a good example. They have taken over some northern towns. They do it by buying from non Muslims but only ever selling to fellow Muslims. It gives them security apparently but creates resentment elsewhere. Quite a large proportion don't speak English. They seek to impose their own (Sharia) laws and customs on their people, beyond English law and jurisdiction. Effectively they are creating Little Pakistan. Obviously, in addition there's a problem with extremism and terrorism from a very small minority.
 
No complaints about May's pitch for the workers, with her workers rights. Just needs to add financial support for up to a year off to care for a relative (I couldn't afford this), real guarantees rather than 'protection' on pensions, full scale soviets instead of workers representation on company boards, a return to collective bargaining and rights to strike and it would be quite left wing.

The Adam Smith Institute (free market nutters) have claimed that these very modest proposals will lead to economic stagnation and unemployment. Has nobody told them Project Fear Mk 2 is against Labour, not Big Mother? Careful lads, she's watching........
 
sb_73 said:
Having just reread 1984 I may well be hypersensitive to manipulation of facts, but I have just read some disturbing stuff from Michael Fallon (a figure of increasing morbid fascination to me). He said, in an interview with Andrew Marr, that the Government promises to make sure that the army would be built up to 82,000 by 2020, as pledged in the 2015 Tory manifesto. In fact that manifesto promised not to let numbers of soldiers fall below 82,000 during the lifetime of the current government. Currently there are less than 80,000 full time soldiers, due to retention and recruitment problems (apparently budgets for training and exercises which are needed to keep soldiers capable and motivated have been cut, and so more than expected are leaving, out of boredom I suppose). But not according to Fallon, who says we are recruiting 'more' regular soldiers and reservists. Unfortunately his own department's figures show that the army fell 2,600 short of the 9,580 recruitment target.

It really is incredibly tedious and tiring not to be able to trust a single word these ****s say. The sheer contempt in which they hold us, the arrogance of imagining that something will be taken as true because they say it out loud on the telly, and the terrifying possibility that some, perhaps most, people will actually believe it because it comes from our government, who represent us, and they (rightly) don't think it's their job to assume they are being lied to all the time, fills me with despair. I know it's not new or confined to Tory governments, but do I really have to fact check everything? Though I suppose now there are no trusted, objective, sources of information it really doesn't matter, we can believe whatever we want and whatever reinforces our existing beliefs. The one bright spot is that the powers do not actually control the past yet, however much they want to, so they can be challenged, even though it will be a waste of time to do so. Because they have no shame in being caught lying, it's just expediency for them.

I know that if I resorted to lying like this at my work, I would pretty soon have to resign before I was sacked, because my actions have consequences (however insignificant in the grand scheme of things) and my colleagues and ultimately customers have to be able to trust me. Why this doesn't apply to Fallon and his ilk, and how he can look at himself in the mirror, is beyond me. The most scary possibility is that he actually believes what he said, in a classic exercise of doublethink.

Big Mother is watching you.
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Isn't it ironic that in Parliament the only word the 'Honourable Members' are not allowed to call each other is 'Liar'? Yet it's their stock-in trade. How do you know they're lying? Their lips are moving...
 
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A poll at the weekend put the NHS at the top of the most important issues in the election, overtaking Brexit. If anyone was in any doubt about how important it is to protect the NHS, they should listen to this New Jersey father berating his local Republican representative over US healthcare policy.

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Corbyn did ok on the ITV interview just now, though he is clearly a spiky character. Why he couldn't say that his £130k plus salary made him wealthy rather than just 'well paid' I'm not sure.
 
Now I'm not one for politics in any way, shape or form and to be quite honest believe that one set of moronic liars soon replace the last but can't believe the British media's obvious bias towards the Conservative party. At every turn they shoot Labour and Corbyn down before they even speak. Now I've never met Jeremy Corbyn in person so can't comment on him but he seems down to earth and more 'normal than any of the other pompous pricks who decide our futures. I will be voting for him
 
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sb_73 said:
Slight overtstatement Goldie. The rise is in those who have sighed and said, though I don't want to leave I suppose we should respect the result of the referendum. That is very different to being 'pro Brexit'.
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OK, Stan - 68% want to get on with Brexit and leave the EU!
 
sb_73 said:
Still doesn't mean they are right.........
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Right and wrong are impossible to debate in this context. Fervent remainers will say that any damage to the economy from Brexit is simply wrong. Brexiteers will say that a short term moderate hit on the economy is worth it to regain sovereignty, control of borders, law and jurisdiction etc and jump from a sinking ship (or at least one that is not headed in the direction they are comfortable with).

It does suggest however, that the Lib Dems are chasing a dwindling section of the electorate (but may be it's worth it if they get more than 8 MP's) and that their call for a second referendum will fall on deaf ears, far deafer even than Sturgeon's call for another referendum on Scottish Independence.
 
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GoldhawkRd said:
Right and wrong are impossible to debate in this context. Fervent remainers will say that any damage to the economy from Brexit is simply wrong. Brexiteers will say that a short term moderate hit on the economy is worth it to regain sovereignty, control of borders, law and jurisdiction etc and jump from a sinking ship (or at least one that is not headed in the direction they are comfortable with).

It does suggest however, that the Lib Dems are chasing a dwindling section of the electorate (but may be it's worth it if they get more than 8 MP's) and that their call for a second referendum will fall on deaf ears, far deafer even than Sturgeon's call for another referendum on Scottish Independence.
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It will be fun explaining your first paragraph to someone who loses their job due to Brexit. 'Your job was worth sacrificing for my principles'.

I think you may be right on the Lib Dems though, they are running a poor campaign. Labour, though they are hamstrung by Corbyn, are at least offering something distinctive, I may even vote for them. They need to keep the discussion on the NHS and public services through the rest of the campaign. If the Tories continue to make this May v Corbyn Labour really should make much more of her record as Home Secretary - uncontrolled immigration EU and ex EU (Blair may have opened the gates but the flood started and has continued under the Tories), police numbers down by 20,000 on her watch etc etc
 
sb_73 said:
It will be fun explaining your first paragraph to someone who loses their job due to Brexit. 'Your job was worth sacrificing for my principles'.

I think you may be right on the Lib Dems though, they are running a poor campaign. Labour, though they are hamstrung by Corbyn, are at least offering something distinctive, I may even vote for them. They need to keep the discussion on the NHS and public services through the rest of the campaign. If the Tories continue to make this May v Corbyn Labour really should make much more of her record as Home Secretary - uncontrolled immigration EU and ex EU (Blair may have opened the gates but the flood started and has continued under the Tories), police numbers down by 20,000 on her watch etc etc
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Some jobs may go with Brexit - too early to say - but other opportunities will open up once we are free to trade with the world outside the EU.

As for Labour, if you want to know what the UK would look like under Corbyn and MacDonnell, take a look at France under Hollande, where there was a huge exodus of talent, much of it to the UK. The French economy has suffered greatly - which is why the Socialists didn't reach the second round of the presidential election.

Labour's manifesto will now come under huge scrutiny on costing. We'll see how it holds up.
 
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