Off Topic The Politics Thread

[qprbeth]

Ask the familys of the murdered people if they forgive the IRA man because he said sorry.

Please Durbar go and read what Colin Parry, father of his son Tim murdered by the IRA said about the passing of McGuinness. Then you may understand what some of us are trying to say.
He never forgave the IRA for his sons death but he respected the part McGuinness played in the Peace process...in that way saving many lives that would have been lost.

 

[NigsyHoops]

I find it interesting that every incident such as today is categorised as a terrorist incident, I feel as soon as you do that you are turning the murdering scum into a martyr.

They do not make me afraid they only make me angry, I do not listen to their words, I only want to silence their very being. Whatever their cause if they wish to do people harm, then we need to displace their very existence.

When you commit an attack like this, you are attacking randomly ordinary people of all nationalities, religions and beliefs. The people that are elected to govern us will always be given the highest level of security, so the attacker is nothing more than murdering cowardly scum of the weak, the innocent and an unarmed human being.

I have one message for anyone that wishes us harm...go Fk yourself

brb I'm with you 100%

 

[rangercol]

Please Durbar go and read what Colin Parry, father of his son Tim murdered by the IRA said about the passing of McGuinness. Then you may understand what some of us are trying to say.
He never forgave the IRA for his sons death but he respected the part McGuinness played in the Peace process...in that way saving many lives that would have been lost.

In view of what happened yesterday it would be nice if the adulation of McGuinness could be suspended for a day or two.

 

[qprbeth]

In view of what happened yesterday it would be nice if the adulation of McGuinness could be suspended for a day or two.

Col ...the man is being buried today in Derry.What they do in Derry today is completely up to them and has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in London yesterday.

I do not think you will find any adulation in the UK mainland today of McGuinness.

 

[Hoopington]

I have seen this muppet on a tv program preaching hate. If it ends up being him, then a lot of people will ask why these freaks aren't locked up or deported before they get the chance to do this?

Once they break the law they generally are. You can't really start locking people up before they break the law, it all gets a little Orwellian.

 

[rangercol]

Col ...the man is being buried today in Derry.What they do in Derry today is completely up to them and has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in London yesterday.

I do not think you will find any adulation in the UK mainland today of McGuinness.

Beth, I didn't infer, in any way that what happened in London yesterday had anything whatsoever to do with McGuinness or his followers. I just think that, as your view is at odds with quite a few others and visa versa it would be good to not discuss the merits of a convicted terrorist whilst people are in mourning for what just happened yesterday.

 

[ELLERS]

Once they break the law they generally are. You can't really start locking people up before they break the law, it all gets a little Orwellian.

Stop using Orwell as an excuse. This is not Orwell, we live in a democratic state not a dystopian or totalitarian one.
These freaks with their freak beliefs have no place in a modern society. The kill/rape/behead/discriminate because of their twisted ideology.
I was shocked to read the amount of these muppets that went to Syria to fight for ISIS and have since come back here?
Too much pussy footing around. The government know who many of them are and instead of wasting billions of pounds on watching them they should arrest them, deport them or throw them in jail. Alternatively, If they want to live in some Islamic state then pack a bag a f22k off.
Orwell has nothing to do with indiscriminately running over people and stabbing a policeman. Otherwise tell me which Orwell book you read that in?

 

[sb_73]

'Orwellian' is a generally accepted adjective to describe a situation which is destructive to the workings of a free and open society. It's not meant to be a reference to a particular passage of writing (though I would urge everyone to read as much Orwell as you can). Arresting or deporting people before they have committed a crime (and conspiracy to commit a crime and inciting others to commit a crime are definitely crimes, we don't have to wait for someone to be hurt) or without evidence to suspect that they may be planning to commit a crime is definitely Orwellian.

If we accept that simply associating with hate preachers and their acolytes or regularly visiting hate based websites is sufficient grounds for suspicion then there are plenty of people to arrest (and I am quite happy for this to happen, I'm sick to death of these moronic ****ers), but you still need evidence to imprison or deport them, otherwise you really are in a totalitarian society and we have lost. It is very difficult for a state to repress ideas, however stupid and evil the ideas are, without resorting to repression and state terror.

I fear biggest risk in all of this is that, even though the terrorist attacks are much less frequent and sophisticated than we saw in the 1970s - 1990s (thanks to excellent policing probably), we are running out of patience and will forget our values in the process. I know I am close to this. I find it odd that even though I was directly affected by IRA bombings in the 1970s I am much more wound up by this Jihadist bollocks.

 

[ELLERS]

'Orwellian' is a generally accepted adjective to describe a situation which is destructive to the workings of a free and open society. It's not meant to be a reference to a particular passage of writing (though I would urge everyone to read as much Orwell as you can). Arresting or deporting people before they have committed a crime (and conspiracy to commit a crime and inciting others to commit a crime are definitely crimes, we don't have to wait for someone to be hurt) or without evidence to suspect that they may be planning to commit a crime is definitely Orwellian.

If we accept that simply associating with hate preachers and their acolytes or regularly visiting hate based websites is sufficient grounds for suspicion then there are plenty of people to arrest (and I am quite happy for this to happen, I'm sick to death of these moronic ****ers), but you still need evidence to imprison or deport them, otherwise you really are in a totalitarian society and we have lost. It is very difficult for a state to repress ideas, however stupid and evil the ideas are, without resorting to repression and state terror.

I fear biggest risk in all of this is that, even though the terrorist attacks are much less frequent and sophisticated than we saw in the 1970s - 1990s (thanks to excellent policing probably), we are running out of patience and will forget our values in the process. I know I am close to this. I find it odd that even though I was directly affected by IRA bombings in the 1970s I am much more wound up by this Jihadist bollocks.

I think you are missing the point. Using Orwell in this instant is wrong. If the reference was 1984 (which it probably was) then that is not the society that we live in. China would be a better analogy. Agree though, that people can say that CCTV and internet monitoring is similar to 1984 (big brother) but that has nothing to do with these people that search the internet for making bombs and how to kill someone. It's a loose connection to Orwell at best.
My point is that many of these 'so-called' humans that have returned from Syria can freely move around this country hell bent on causing harm and we should not let this happen.
If that means the government checks emails or internet history then so be it. Only people that have something to hide will worry. We live in different times and must adapt.
Agree people should read more Orwell and stop using his works as an easy excuse.

 

[QPR999]

A scarf has been placed by Charlton Athletic on Seat 166 in the East Stand at The Valley - the seat of season-ticket holder PC Keith Palmer.

You must log in or register to see images

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Can't help feeling if PC Palmer had carried a side-arm, he'd be alive now. There's still a big debate to be had here

 

[ELLERS]

You must log in or register to see images

Can't help feeling if PC Palmer had carried a side-arm, he'd be alive now. There's still a big debate to be had here

[/QUOTE]
Sadly too many 'yoghurt knitters' will be against it.

 

[ELLERS]

I see that ex EDL leader from Luton (forgot his name) has posted a video recorded yesterday just after the attack in Westminster. I don't agree with many of his views but he did talk a bit of sense about yesterday's attack saying that the police "or security service will know full well who he is". This is what bugs me.

 

[qprbeth]

You must log in or register to see images

Sadly too many 'yoghurt knitters' will be against it.[/QUOTE]

Well I have learnt a new phrase today...yoghurt knitter (tree hugger)...thank you Ellers/Urban dictionary.
I do not think that even our most royal tree-hugger Prince Charles would object to this


A lovely tribute for a hero...by the club I wonder?..
I love the phrase used by one of the MPs...."he was our village copper"

 

[ELLERS]

Sadly too many 'yoghurt knitters' will be against it.

Well I have learnt a new phrase today...yoghurt knitter (tree hugger)...thank you Ellers/Urban dictionary.
I do not think that even our most royal tree-hugger Prince Charles would object to this


A lovely tribute for a hero...by the club I wonder?..
I love the phrase used by one of the MPs...."he was our village copper"[/QUOTE]
I am glad I could enlighten you Beth.

 

[durbar2003]

Can't help feeling if PC Palmer had carried a side-arm, he'd be alive now. There's still a big debate to be had here

I think I heard yesterday he was armed. I wonder if he was wearing a bullet proof or stab vest, I guess not.

 

[ELLERS]

I think I heard yesterday he was armed. I wonder if he was wearing a bullet proof or stab vest, I guess not.

Many of the security guards that work in the government offices do not wear bulletproof vests. I know this because I have been in the building and met some of the people that work there.

 

[qprbeth]

Just before I left home today, I heard (not confirmed) that the intruder was not actually shot by the police per se but by the body guards to the Foreign secretary (who a think are an off shoot of the Met or off MI5 but not sure). It was being implied that it was a coincidence that these armed security people were there (awaiting the arrival of their Foreign Secretary after the vote) otherwise the intruder would have got a lot further, and killed further people. It was being implied that there were no armed policeman in the courtyard at all.

There was a lot of political embarrassment on the lunchtime politics show on the BBC

 

[daverangers]

As I was working yesterday, my phone kept on pinging with messages on watsapp from family, firstly checking everyone was ok and then trying to piece together various media reports to work out what had happened. Only when I got home and looked on the news/online, did I see for myself the horrific scenes from Westminster. It looked like something from an action film involving an attack on the government building. So frightening but above all sad that lives were lost for nothing.

As I have thought about it today, as I'm sure many of us have, I've firstly wondered what on earth drives someone to do something like this. Whether it be the promise of a hundred virgins in the after life, or a fortune for family left behind, one thing is certain, there has to be a degree of insanity involved for someone to reach the conclusion that anything will be achieved from an action like this.

My second reaction is anger at whatever cause drove this person to act in this horrific way. Whether it be religious, political, ethical or personal, what could possibly cause someone to think this is reasonable behaviour? Nothing. So, the conclusion has to be that whatever the motivation, this was the act of a mad man.

Deepest condolences to all those who have lost loved ones.

 

[TootingExcess]

Can't help feeling if PC Palmer had carried a side-arm, he'd be alive now. There's still a big debate to be had here

I presume he carried a taser and a truncheon though Goldie - and didnt have a chance to use either. So I'm guessing you don't mean he'd still have been surprised and the attacker would have had access to his sidearm? Which was exactly what happened at the airport in france. In both cases the nutter was shot by a comrade who had time to react.

For the record I've no problem with armed police patroling the streets - i work in the City so ive seen them this morning - but they don't all need to be armed in my opinion.