Off Topic The Politics Thread

[TheBigDipper]

I see his point about the car makers moving plants to Mexico costing a lot of jobs in the US. England have lost many jobs in similar circumstances with manufacturing jobs lost to the far east.
It's the NATO thing that worries me more.

Now it seems to be under threat, I'm still thinking through how I feel about NATO rather than just taking it for granted. What do others think? Is NATO working? Do the countries that benefit from it pay their way or not (as Trump says)? If NATO stood down or was diminished, what would happen to us in the UK?

C'mon - what do you think?

 

[ELLERS]

Trumps latest comments about Brexit and trade deal with UK have been received very well. Let's hope he keeps to his promise. This is exactly what our government wanted to hear. I wonder if the 'Remoaners' are happy as well?

 

[sb_73]

Now it seems to be under threat, I'm still thinking through how I feel about NATO rather than just taking it for granted. What do others think? Is NATO working? Do the countries that benefit from it pay their way or not (as Trump says)? If NATO stood down or was diminished, what would happen to us in the UK?

C'mon - what do you think?

I think NATO in general is a good thing (which would be enhanced if one of its members was not quite so dominant, but nothing's going to change that), members should agree an appropriate level of contribution to it country by country and stick to it, and without it the UK, assuming we still think we have a 'special relationship' with the US, would be even more tied to following US foreign policy. The acid test for NATO (and the US) will be if Putin steps up his attempts to destabilise the Baltic States. Do people on here think that the UK should commit troops to a possible conflict there if NATO actually stands up for some of its members?

I'm trying to think through the 'news/allegation' that the combined wealth of 8 individuals is more than the poorest half of the world's population. While I don't think 'trickle down' economics works (and neither now does the Powell brother who was Thatchers advisor and an enthusiastic fan in the 80s and 90s) I don't have a problem with extreme wealth provided it was honestly come by and the individuals meet their tax obligations. Some of these 8, like Bill Gates, have actually changed the world in the course of amassing their fortune. It's not his fault that the way we organise ourselves makes the inequalities so stark.

 

[sb_73]

Trumps latest comments about Brexit and trade deal with UK have been received very well. Let's hope he keeps to his promise. This is exactly what our government wanted to hear. I wonder if the 'Remoaners' are happy as well?

As you probably think of me as a remoaner, I can only say good. Equally I hope May's speech tomorrow is crystal clear about our broad intentions in the Brexit talks, and I expect the inevitable 'market correction' to the £ will be temporary if we can show that we are setting up similar deals with lots of countries which can take effect in 2019, or soon after.

I hope we can recruit enough competent negotiators to strike these deals quickly. The maximum pre tax salary the U.K. government is offering to tempt Brit negotiators from their existing roles in the EU and other international organisations is £120k. Even if they are kicked out of EU employment when we leave (as they expect they will be) they are earning more than this (though not that much more, albeit with a favourable tax regime. From what I can see the top EU civil servant earn less tha £170k a year at most - of course recently inflated by the decline in Sterling- , though they probably have various allowances and a gold plated pension too) at the moment and the private sector will snap them up as lobbyists to the EU at much higher rates when they leave. Information gained from an old mate who currently works in trade at the EU and has been approached by the British government. He declined the offer.

 

[ELLERS]

As you probably think of me as a remoaner, I can only say good. Equally I hope May's speech tomorrow is crystal clear about our broad intentions in the Brexit talks, and I expect the inevitable 'market correction' to the £ will be temporary if we can show that we are setting up similar deals with lots of countries which can take effect in 2019, or soon after.

I hope we can recruit enough competent negotiators to strike these deals quickly. The maximum pre tax salary the U.K. government is offering to tempt Brit negotiators from their existing roles in the EU and other international organisations is £120k. Even if they are kicked out of EU employment when we leave (as they expect they will be) they are earning more than this (though not that much more, albeit with a favourable tax regime. From what I can see the top EU civil servant earn less tha £170k a year at most - of course recently inflated by the decline in Sterling- , though they probably have various allowances and a gold plated pension too) at the moment and the private sector will snap them up as lobbyists to the EU at much higher rates when they leave. Information gained from an old mate who currently works in trade at the EU and has been approached by the British government. He declined the offer.

Oh well.

 

[colognehornet]

It appears that now 'Brexit' is cut and dry the next thing to do is to hold the government to accountability as to what 'Nexit' will look like ie. we need to be voting on this. What does the picture look like 'after' the EU. After we are freed from all those inconvenient human rights laws, environmental regulations and other regulations regarding employment laws. There are various possible scenarios.
a) The British come to their senses and blame the Tories for this whole mess, we get a left leaning Labour Government which uses the freedom from EU. regulation, to nationalize eg. railways and energy concerns. Away from the neo liberal club which the EU. has become.
b) We disappear behind a fog and go down with a sinking ship (but we will have our sovereignty).
c) We are seeing the last chapter in the Americanization of the UK. we will jump into bed with Trump - see a free trade deal with a country which wants to offload its gene manipulated rubbish on someone, which desparately needs to export more to correct its trade balance. We could see a free trde deal with this country which has lower environmental standards than the EU. lower safety standards, and under conditions similar to TTIP. ie. which strengthen the powers of trans atlantic companies to actually take us to court. All this in the name of sovereignty.
d) We see Britain developing as some kind of 'Singapore like' offshore tax haven, thus being formally in the business of 'ripping off' our former allies. At the same time further developing Britain as a low wage economy that is more attractive to investors.
e) We finally realize, once out, that it makes more sense to base our future around known partners, who are close to us, rather than imaginary ones which would involve a large expansion in shipping capacity (this is already close to its limits). What serious industry would insult its best customers, with the hope of replacing them at some stage ?

 

[Stroller]

It appears that now 'Brexit' is cut and dry the next thing to do is to hold the government to accountability as to what 'Nexit' will look like ie. we need to be voting on this. What does the picture look like 'after' the EU. After we are freed from all those inconvenient human rights laws, environmental regulations and other regulations regarding employment laws. There are various possible scenarios.
a) The British come to their senses and blame the Tories for this whole mess, we get a left leaning Labour Government which uses the freedom from EU. regulation, to nationalize eg. railways and energy concerns. Away from the neo liberal club which the EU. has become.
b) We disappear behind a fog and go down with a sinking ship (but we will have our sovereignty).
c) We are seeing the last chapter in the Americanization of the UK. we will jump into bed with Trump - see a free trade deal with a country which wants to offload its gene manipulated rubbish on someone, which desparately needs to export more to correct its trade balance. We could see a free trde deal with this country which has lower environmental standards than the EU. lower safety standards, and under conditions similar to TTIP. ie. which strengthen the powers of trans atlantic companies to actually take us to court. All this in the name of sovereignty.
d) We see Britain developing as some kind of 'Singapore like' offshore tax haven, thus being formally in the business of 'ripping off' our former allies. At the same time further developing Britain as a low wage economy that is more attractive to investors.
e) We finally realize, once out, that it makes more sense to base our future around known partners, who are close to us, rather than imaginary ones which would involve a large expansion in shipping capacity (this is already close to its limits). What serious industry would insult its best customers, with the hope of replacing them at some stage ?

I'll take (a) please, but expect a combination of (c) and (d).

 

[QPR Oslo]

Watching the news at the moment is like watching fantasy island. UK to be an offshore Europe tax haven! UK ready to pull out of the single European market where fortysomething% of its exports go, and falling over backwards at a vague promise of a first trade deal with a distant US by an ex fantasy island presenter, who is to be the US president in 4 days! Meanwhile the Pound plumets.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Trumps latest comments about Brexit and trade deal with UK have been received very well. Let's hope he keeps to his promise. This is exactly what our government wanted to hear. I wonder if the 'Remoaners' are happy as well?

Let's see what actually happens. Soundbites for the cameras are easy. However I'm sure that the vast majority, however typecast they are by those on the other of the argument, will be delighted if it all works out for the best.

 

[aberdude]

and the Rothschild will still run the show if in Europe or out.........so please stop this left right bollocks lads>>>>>>>the banking system always wins when the masses are divided


as for trump ........he`s nothing but a Jesuit/zionist working for Israel.....he couldn't give a flying fk for Britains people apart from the 33rd degree masons and lizard who sits on the throne England.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Trump is a protectionist, but I have little doubt also that he is a great deal more pro-UK that Back-of-the-queue Obama was. The Obamas are resentful of the UK, because they are resentful of Empire - Michelle in particular. When she came to the UK, her publicised engagements were with young black girls telling them how smart they are, which was well worthwhile, but the fact that she did it to the exclusion other engagements was noticeable

BoJo was criticised for voicing the fact that Obama had a Kenyan ancestral prejudice towards the UK. He was right, but diplomacy dictates he should not have voiced it

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Watching the news at the moment is like watching fantasy island. UK to be an offshore Europe tax haven! UK ready to pull out of the single European market where fortysomething% of its exports go, and falling over backwards at a vague promise of a first trade deal with a distant US by an ex fantasy island presenter, who is to be the US president in 4 days! Meanwhile the Pound plumets.

If there's a mug of coffee in front of you as you type, Oslo, I bet it's half empty...

 

[finglasqpr]

Trump is a protectionist, but I have little doubt also that he is a great deal more pro-UK that Back-of-the-queue Obama was. The Obamas are resentful of the UK, because they are resentful of Empire - Michelle in particular. When she came to the UK, her publicised engagements were with young black girls telling them how smart they are, which was well worthwhile, but the fact that she did it to the exclusion other engagements was noticeable

BoJo was criticised for voicing the fact that Obama had a Kenyan ancestral prejudice towards the UK. He was right, but diplomacy dictates he should not have voiced it

If you are going to talk about the respective first "lady's", at least Michelle Obama is a lady. Can you say the same about Trump's missus???? Michelle Obama has grace. Trump's missus calls herself a model but some suggest she is really a porn star.

I think Obama did a great job of keeping world peace over the last 8 years despite some provocation by Russia and ISIS. I think he was right to keep out of Syria but I think he should have sent American troops into Ukraine to protect their borders. Lets see where the world stands in 2025 if Trump gets re-elected and then we can all judge where we stand on Obama V Trump. I'm not that interested in which one is most pro-UK. I think it suits Trump's agenda to try to divide Europe and clearly that's what his regime will try to do for America's benefit. If Trump is going to become the UK's biggest ally, god help you is all I can say because he will not do that for the benefit of the people in the UK. Everything he does will be for America's benefit only.

 

[Stroller]

Trump is a protectionist, but I have little doubt also that he is a great deal more pro-UK that Back-of-the-queue Obama was. The Obamas are resentful of the UK, because they are resentful of Empire - Michelle in particular. When she came to the UK, her publicised engagements were with young black girls telling them how smart they are, which was well worthwhile, but the fact that she did it to the exclusion other engagements was noticeable

BoJo was criticised for voicing the fact that Obama had a Kenyan ancestral prejudice towards the UK. He was right, but diplomacy dictates he should not have voiced it

I'd love to see Michelle Obama stand next time, she'd wipe the floor with Trump. He'll have been impeached long before that though.

Trump is speaking warmly about Britain and Brexit because he wants to see the disintegration of the EU. Probably because his sponsor in Moscow wants that too

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

If you are going to talk about the respective first "lady's", at least Michelle Obama is a lady. Can you say the same about Trump's missus???? Michelle Obama has grace. Trump's missus calls herself a model but some suggest she is really a porn star.

I think Obama did a great job of keeping world peace over the last 8 years despite some provocation by Russia and ISIS. I think he was right to keep out of Syria but I think he should have sent American troops into Ukraine to protect their borders. Lets see where the world stands in 2025 if Trump gets re-elected and then we can all judge where we stand on Obama V Trump. I'm not that interested in which one is most pro-UK. I think it suits Trump's agenda to try to divide Europe and clearly that's what his regime will try to do for America's benefit. If Trump is going to become the UK's biggest ally, god help you is all I can say because he will not do that for the benefit of the people in the UK. Everything he does will be for America's benefit only.

If keeping world peace means doing absolutely nothing beyond US borders, then Obama was a success. He made threats re Syria and then backed down. And I can understand that you don't care that he's not pro-UK, because you have a different perspective. But even the most optimistic Brexiteer recognises that we are entering choppy waves as we get our independence back, so if Trump's as good as his world on a fast trade agreement, that will be welcome (personally, I don't believe the EU will be so stupid as to get into a trade war with the UK, sabres are being rattled but something positive for all will be arrived at eventually).

Trump believes in nation - not no-border, no identity liberal stuff. I believe in nation. I love the culture of the European nations and hate to see the non-descriptive blob they're turning into. As to women, I'll take Melania (and Evanka if available). If I offered you a "lady" that looked down her nose at Ireland or a mature call-girl who simply lived for all things Emerald Isle, I bet you'd opt for the old tart! I certainly would.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I'd love to see Michelle Obama stand next time, she'd wipe the floor with Trump. He'll have been impeached long before that though.

Trump is speaking warmly about Britain and Brexit because he wants to see the disintegration of the EU. Probably because his sponsor in Moscow wants that too

Michelle Obama is totally untested. She's academically clever, well rehearsed, a fashion icon and has had a media-savvy and polished husband to help her - but she's never been in high office and never run a successful business.

 

[durbar2003]

I don't know why so many people put down America but love going there for holidays and having a great time.
Trump won, accept it. He will be out in 4 years.

By the way, I've not heard one person over here bitch about May!

 

[finglasqpr]

If keeping world peace means doing absolutely nothing beyond US borders, then Obama was a success. He made threats re Syria and then backed down. And I can understand that you don't care that he's not pro-UK, because you have a different perspective. But even the most optimistic Brexiteer recognises that we are entering choppy waves as we get our independence back, so if Trump's as good as his world on a fast trade agreement, that will be welcome (personally, I don't believe the EU will be so stupid as to get into a trade war with the UK, sabres are being rattled but something positive for all will be arrived at eventually).

Trump believes in nation - not no-border, no identity liberal stuff. I believe in nation. I love the culture of the European nations and hate to see the non-descriptive blob they're turning into. As to women, I'll take Melania (and Evanka if available). If I offered you a "lady" that looked down her nose at Ireland or a mature call-girl who simply lived for all things Emerald Isle, I bet you'd opt for the old tart! I certainly would.

That's where you and I differ Goldy. I believe Obama achieved world peace in his 8 years because he didn't make idle threats. He didn't invade other countries. He achieved things like the Paris Climate change agreement for the good of all the people of the world together, irrespective of Borders. He saw the full picture. Trump will reverse all that in an instant.

Each country in Europe is retaining it's own culture as far as I can see. I would rather go on a journey from Dublin to Istanbul and enjoy the different languages, the different food, the all the different cultures and landscapes than a journey from LA via Taxas and Oklahoma to New York where nothing changes throughout the journey. Trump believes in dividing his own nation and upsetting his neighbours. I can guarantee you one thing, the world today will be a far better, more peaceful place overall than the world the day Trump walks out of office. America will be far more divided in 4 years time than it is today. Not too sure why you say Michelle Obama looks down her nose at the Emerald Isle. I always got the opposite impression.

 

[colognehornet]

If keeping world peace means doing absolutely nothing beyond US borders, then Obama was a success. He made threats re Syria and then backed down. And I can understand that you don't care that he's not pro-UK, because you have a different perspective. But even the most optimistic Brexiteer recognises that we are entering choppy waves as we get our independence back, so if Trump's as good as his world on a fast trade agreement, that will be welcome (personally, I don't believe the EU will be so stupid as to get into a trade war with the UK, sabres are being rattled but something positive for all will be arrived at eventually).

Trump believes in nation - not no-border, no identity liberal stuff. I believe in nation. I love the culture of the European nations and hate to see the non-descriptive blob they're turning into. As to women, I'll take Melania (and Evanka if available). If I offered you a "lady" that looked down her nose at Ireland or a mature call-girl who simply lived for all things Emerald Isle, I bet you'd opt for the old tart! I certainly would.

Not sure about doing nothing, Obama had a big thing with using drones on civilians. As to independence ? How much of that would survive a free trade deal with the USA if it included any of the conditions of TTIP or CETA ? Do you want global players to be able to take whole countries to offshore courts if their products fail safety or environmental standards - Philip Morris did exactly this because of anti smoking posters in Mexico. Do you think it does anything for British sovereignty to give up the pooled sovereignty of the EU. simply to go into another trading zone which has even worse conditions attached to it ? The Brexiters should have been running around waving the stars and stripes because it is what many of them wanted all along - this would, at least, have been honest.

 

[Stroller]

Michelle Obama is totally untested. She's academically clever, well rehearsed, a fashion icon and has had a media-savvy and polished husband to help her - but she's never been in high office and never run a successful business.

She hasn't had multiple bankruptcies either.