Not sure about UKIP forcing his hand, but I do think that the referendum promise was calculated to avoid losing votes to UKIP. Of course, they didn't think they could win a majority, so didn't expect to have to deliver on the promise. This has now blown up in Cameron's face as it looks inevitable to me that immigration fears will dominate the debate, resulting in an exit vote. This will be followed by another referendum in Scotland and a break-up of the Union. Good job Dave.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Not sure about UKIP forcing his hand, but I do think that the referendum promise was calculated to avoid losing votes to UKIP. Of course, they didn't think they could win a majority, so didn't expect to have to deliver on the promise. This has now blown up in Cameron's face as it looks inevitable to me that immigration fears will dominate the debate, resulting in an exit vote. This will be followed by another referendum in Scotland and a break-up of the Union. Good job Dave.
Referenda on crucial issues like the loss of sovereignty to the EU are part of the democratic process. No one in the UK ever voted on that. The vote in 1975 was to join a common market, not to enter into political union.
It is quite possible, indeed eminently desirable, for the UK to leave the EU and yet be pro Europe
It is quite possible, indeed eminently desirable, for the UK to leave the EU and yet be pro Europe
Do you think it is more likely or less likely that the EU/Eurozone countries will boost the standing of Frankfurt as a financial hub if the UK leaves Goldie?
I don't think it makes much odds to the Eurozone either way, Stan. The Eurozone (at least, those nations that survive in there) will gradually become one state and will promote their key financial centre (probably Frankfurt) at the expense of all other countries, whether those countries are in the EU or not.
If the UK leaves the EU and thrives, which I believe it will due both to European and non-European trade, then I think there will be other EU countries not in the Eurozone which will seek a looser arrangement than that at present. Take Denmark, which like the UK, is quite Eurosceptic. It will find it has no influence at all when up against the Eurozone and that huge voting block.
Ultimately, the EU may be fine economically and politically for the 19 (with one or two like Greece possibly falling out), and the rest need a sensible trading forum with plenty of goodwill on all sides
I think you could be right, in that Scotland will leave the Union if we vote to leave the EU. I will find that regretful as I like the Union, but I will vote to leave whatever.
That's a fair enough assessment of the corner he's painted himself into and the likely outcome for the UK if we do vote to leave. Let's hope we don't go there. If nothing else, were we to leave, who would the government be able to blame for things going wrong if the EU wasn't an available excuse?
It will give us ultimate control over immigration.
That isn't the key reason for me voting to leave though.
No way we will leave, the media have got it sown up. At what point did our renegotiation become about something so narrow as a 4 year brake on migrant benefits (even though w didn't get that)?
Unbelievable bias of BBC shown in this article
http://www.cityam.com/233576/the-eu-referendum-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-the-bbc
Radio 4- 2004- 2015 of the 4,275 guest speakers on Today programme on EU themes, only 132 (3%) of them were identifiably in favour of leaving the EU of that 72% were UKIP, and 37% were... Farage.
Media have drip dripped in for decades a biased opinion and then on the rare occasions there is a representative of the other argument it's UKIP. So making it a fringe issue. And of course run down UKIP for good measure just to be sure whenever they get a chance as well
Unbelievable bias of BBC shown in this article
http://www.cityam.com/233576/the-eu-referendum-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-the-bbc
Radio 4- 2004- 2015 of the 4,275 guest speakers on Today programme on EU themes, only 132 (3%) of them were identifiably in favour of leaving the EU of that 72% were UKIP, and 37% were... Farage.
Media have drip dripped in for decades a biased opinion and then on the rare occasions there is a representative of the other argument it's UKIP. So making it a fringe issue. And of course run down UKIP for good measure just to be sure whenever they get a chance as well
The EU discussions haven't been just about in or out. It's obvious that as we are currently a member of the EU, most discussions will focus on how we work with the rest of the members, and not solely on whether or not we should leave.
Just watched a tv interview with a Guardian journalist . The Guardian have fallen out with Assange, calling him egocentric and impossible to work with. if he's alienated the liberal Guardian, he really is a difficult tosser
You have to feel sooooo sorry for the luvvies who put up his £250k bail money, that showed his true colours. So he'll just have to stay in 'Ecuador' until 2020 when the warrant expires, he'll no doubt be topping up his tan...
Small minded? How very pompous, if I may say so?
I see very little wrong with nationalism unless one is inclined to make the huge leap to grandiose little nationalist states and extremism. The European idea was fine whilst it centred upon breaking down the barriers to trade amongst member states, but the inevitable march to monetary and political union is too far in the opinion of many, particularly because powers to do so were ceded without so much as a by your leave. Not one of the main political parties has offered anything like a choice on this for the past 40 years.
I still find it funny that the Scots claim to want independence through leaving the Union, but would want to stay in the EU where their powers would be eradicated in time anyway. Maybe it's to do with handouts.
But the point is, that if the person discussing it was identifiably for leaving they would have said, 'well on this issue, if we left the EU we wouldn't have to do that, we could do this instead' (for example)
But those voices aren't represented and are consistently marginalised
I think you're reading your own personal political bias into it, mate. If people don't say whether they are for or against, I don't see how you can judge their position either way.
