Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

UK credit rating downgraded. This is capitalism at its very worst. The cause is alleged Brexit uncertainty, but a big factor is predicted increased public sector spending on breaching the pay cap. Net effect is government has to pay more to borrow, as international lenders try to dictate fiscal policy. Imagine what they would do if Corbyn got in?

Macron reiterates EU line that we have to get the current account divorce bill, citizenship and Ireland sorted before post Brexit arrangements considered. Expect Merkel to do the same once her re-election is out of the way. They really have been very consistent about this since day one. Let’s hope we can get on with it now.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

I wasn't calling you pathetic Paul, rather the idea that the EU should punish any Country for choosing to leave.
I fully respect your views on both Britain and France, whilst completely disagreeing with just about all of them.

I'm at the Burton game today, so I do agree with you about wanting us to smash them.

Yep bottom line we are all just football fans and I expect most on here care a lot more about QPR than current politics and business

As per France I sense you are a rural lad so I know you would get it if you were where I am now ... watching griffin vultures riding the thermals
You would I know respect the French mainstream family unit whereupon I am often surrounded by 4 generations of families at my local bar ... all respecting upwards in terms of age... it’s a beautiful normal

Have a great match I will be tuning in 4pm to watch myself

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Have a great match I will be tuning in 4pm to watch myself

Narcissist

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

In the world of sat navs, is it really necessary to have 'the knowledge'?

Fair point, but it can go wrong :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-Earls-daughter-to-wrong-Stamford-Bridge.html

We only have the driver's word that it was a mistake, mind. Probably paid off half his mortgage.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Narcissist

Yes I dress like Dave Thomas in front of the mirror and dribble

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

UK credit rating downgraded. This is capitalism at its very worst. The cause is alleged Brexit uncertainty, but a big factor is predicted increased public sector spending on breaching the pay cap. Net effect is government has to pay more to borrow, as international lenders try to dictate fiscal policy. Imagine what they would do if Corbyn got in?

Macron reiterates EU line that we have to get the current account divorce bill, citizenship and Ireland sorted before post Brexit arrangements considered. Expect Merkel to do the same once her re-election is out of the way. They really have been very consistent about this since day one. Let’s hope we can get on with it now.

I suspect now there is Euro 20 million plus on the table, Merkel and Macron may get less picky about barring the commencement of trade talks - if not, they'll have their national exporting industries on their backs

 

[sb_73]

I suspect now there is Euro 20 million plus on the table, Merkel and Macron may get less picky about barring the commencement of trade talks - if not, they'll have their national exporting industries on their backs

According to the Times total looking more like £40bn for current account settling up and transitional buy in.

You’ve been saying this about their exporting industries for ages Goldie, but just as our government will blame the EU for absence of agreement, the EU governments will blame the U.K. - the German press, right, left and centre has been very disparaging about the British government and its performance, with May, Davies and Johnson particular targets of ridicule. Propaganda works both ways.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Yes I dress like Dave Thomas in front of the mirror and dribble

From where?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

According to the Times total looking more like £40bn for current account settling up and transitional buy in.

You’ve been saying this about their exporting industries for ages Goldie, but just as our government will blame the EU for absence of agreement, the EU governments will blame the U.K. - the German press, right, left and centre has been very disparaging about the British government and its performance, with May, Davies and Johnson particular targets of ridicule. Propaganda works both ways.

This is the point I'm making. Until yesterday, it's been easy for the EU governments and Press to be critical. But money talks, and without UK funds, there's a gap in the EU budget that will hit the Eastern Europe. Furthermore, the UK is Germany's biggest car market, and third largest export market. There is already general unrest at lack of progress in the talks from German industry. If there is serious money on the table from the UK, smaller EU states and EU export industry will not want to hear that they must suffer, because Brussels is concerned about retaining the purity of the organisation.

 

[sb_73]

This is the point I'm making. Until yesterday, it's been easy for the EU governments and Press to be critical. But money talks, and without UK funds, there's a gap in the EU budget that will hit the Eastern Europe. Furthermore, the UK is Germany's biggest car market, and third largest export market. There is already general unrest at lack of progress in the talks from German industry. If there is serious money on the table from the UK, smaller EU states and EU export industry will not want to hear that they must suffer, because Brussels is concerned about retaining the purity of the organisation.

I’m pretty sure the EU, with the full support of France and Germany, will say ‘great, your transitional period where you stay in the EU gives us plenty of time to do a trade deal, let’s get the rest of it - citizens, current account bill, Ireland - sorted first, as we have always been saying. By the way, the transitional deal may be dependant on us sorting these things’ The U.K. has been saying that these things are intrinsically linked with trade, but by kicking that back down the road, the German car exporters have another 2 years of current trading conditions. Looks to me that May/Davies have given up on the delaying tactic of ‘we can’t talk about x if it’s not linked to trade’ Think how much further down the road we might have been if the U.K. had accepted that the EU dictates the agenda from the off.

Given what Col and Ellers have said about May et al, it seems you may be the sole (contributing) Brexit supporter on here who thinks the Government is doing ok.

 

[rangercol]

I’m pretty sure the EU, with the full support of France and Germany, will say ‘great, your transitional period where you stay in the EU gives us plenty of time to do a trade deal, let’s get the rest of it - citizens, current account bill, Ireland - sorted first, as we have always been saying. By the way, the transitional deal may be dependant on us sorting these things’ The U.K. has been saying that these things are intrinsically linked with trade, but by kicking that back down the road, the German car exporters have another 2 years of current trading conditions. Looks to me that May/Davies have given up on the delaying tactic of ‘we can’t talk about x if it’s not linked to trade’ Think how much further down the road we might have been if the U.K. had accepted that the EU dictates the agenda from the off.

Given what Col and Ellers have said about May et al, it seems you may be the sole (contributing) Brexit supporter on here who thinks the Government is doing ok.

**** 'em!! Let's just leave.

 

[Stroller]

I do like this bloke....

You must log in or register to see media

 

[durbar2003]

**** 'em!! Let's just leave.

Yes and we can send Boris to Catalonia to talk about new trade deals.

 

[sb_73]

**** 'em!! Let's just leave.

This is the view of my wife, a remain voter. And I’m coming round to it as well. We could just say we stay in until March 2019, paying our dues as members as expected under article 50,then we set our own rules for immigration, status of EU citizens in U.K., the Irish border, and the EU does the same. No negotiation needed. If, eventually, we agree a trade deal with the EU, great.

I don’t believe the Brexit vote was primarily an economic one, it was more cultural. The government has to be honest with us - either say we will fulfill the apparent wish of the people and go for a clean break, thus saving endless circular discussions and loads of money on a pointless government department; or tell us that we can leave in name but have to stay associated with the EU or the country faces ruin, and it would be irresponsible of them to follow a ruinous course. Enough of this fudging and intramural cabinet in fighting.

Selfishly I would like the majority of the pain to be over and done with quickly, before I retire.

 

[TheBigDipper]

This is the view of my wife, a remain voter. And I’m coming round to it as well. We could just say we stay in until March 2019, paying our dues as members as expected under article 50,then we set our own rules for immigration, status of EU citizens in U.K., the Irish border, and the EU does the same. No negotiation needed. If, eventually, we agree a trade deal with the EU, great.

I don’t believe the Brexit vote was primarily an economic one, it was more cultural. The government has to be honest with us - either say we will fulfill the apparent wish of the people and go for a clean break, thus saving endless circular discussions and loads of money on a pointless government department; or tell us that we can leave in name but have to stay associated with the EU or the country faces ruin, and it would be irresponsible of them to follow a ruinous course. Enough of this fudging and intramural cabinet in fighting.

Selfishly I would like the majority of the pain to be over and done with quickly, before I retire.

The people charged with the responsibility of making Brexit happen are looking completely incompetent and expending more energy on covering their backsides for a post-Brexit landscape - so they still have careers - instead of doing the job itself. I'd include the EU27 in that, too.

I'm actually not opposed to a Brexit which delivers a better UK in a better world. If only the people who are asking for it can explain to me how that will emerge.

Their silence on this, or the platitudes from those who do speak, yet cannot be specific, continue to make me believe they haven't a clue or just don't care. All I can see is advancement of the nastier factions at the extreme ends of the left and right political spectrum and economic chaos that will hurt us all.

The world is interconnected and we are all interdependent. To pretend otherwise is delusional. If we change how we are interconnected for political, cultural or personal reasons (and it seems we will be) then at least let's be honest about the price, the duration of the pain and the identification of the casualties.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The people charged with the responsibility of making Brexit happen are looking completely incompetent and expending more energy on covering their backsides for a post-Brexit landscape - so they still have careers - instead of doing the job itself. I'd include the EU27 in that, too.

I'm actually not opposed to a Brexit which delivers a better UK in a better world. If only the people who are asking for it can explain to me how that will emerge.

Their silence on this, or the platitudes from those who do speak, yet cannot be specific, continue to make me believe they haven't a clue or just don't care. All I can see is advancement of the nastier factions at the extreme ends of the left and right political spectrum and economic chaos that will hurt us all.

The world is interconnected and we are all interdependent. To pretend otherwise is delusional. If we change how we are interconnected for political, cultural or personal reasons (and it seems we will be) then at least let's be honest about the price, the duration of the pain and the identification of the casualties.

There's definitely a large element of this lot kicking the can down the road but the 18 months or so we have until March 19 isn't very long at all. Do we have time to get all the infrastructure in place on immigration and customs checks even if we wanted to? I doubt it.

 

[rangercol]

The people charged with the responsibility of making Brexit happen are looking completely incompetent and expending more energy on covering their backsides for a post-Brexit landscape - so they still have careers - instead of doing the job itself. I'd include the EU27 in that, too.

I'm actually not opposed to a Brexit which delivers a better UK in a better world. If only the people who are asking for it can explain to me how that will emerge.

Their silence on this, or the platitudes from those who do speak, yet cannot be specific, continue to make me believe they haven't a clue or just don't care. All I can see is advancement of the nastier factions at the extreme ends of the left and right political spectrum and economic chaos that will hurt us all.

The world is interconnected and we are all interdependent. To pretend otherwise is delusional. If we change how we are interconnected for political, cultural or personal reasons (and it seems we will be) then at least let's be honest about the price, the duration of the pain and the identification of the casualties.

There is definitely a lot of own arse covering going on, which is driving me to distraction. Politicians? ****ers the lot of them.
However, Your point about the World being interconnected, whilst being totally correct, ignores the fact that the EU are a protectionist, closed shop.
When we leave (if we ever do!!), we can get trade deals with the rest of the World, which is something that we can't do whilst being a member of the elitist club.

Finally, all those people saying that the EU hasn't had an effect on our every day life should take a look at just how hard it is to unravel ourselves from our masters' clutches!!

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

There is definitely a lot of own arse covering going on, which is driving me to distraction. Politicians? ****ers the lot of them.
However, Your point about the World being interconnected, whilst being totally correct, ignores the fact that the EU are a protectionist, closed shop.
When we leave (if we ever do!!), we can get trade deals with the rest of the World, which is something that we can't do whilst being a member of the elitist club.

Finally, all those people saying that the EU hasn't had an effect on our every day life should take a look at just how hard it is to unravel ourselves from our masters' clutches!!

I mean this as a genuine question, Col.

What tangible adverse effect has the EU had on your life?

 

[rangercol]

I mean this as a genuine question, Col.

What tangible adverse effect has the EU had on your life?

For the 1millionth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! time..................THEY make the rules. I want US to make the rules for MY Country.
The adverse effect now is just how hard it is to leave their doomed experiment and how vindictive they're being because we have the nerve to walk away.

I know you don't agree and we do all just go around in circles on this.

However, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the ****er politicians will stop us ever really leaving anyway, so I think you'll be happy with the eventual outcome.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

For the 1millionth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! time..................THEY make the rules. I want US to make the rules for MY Country.
The adverse effect now is just how hard it is to leave their doomed experiment and how vindictive they're being because we have the nerve to walk away.

I know you don't agree and we do all just go around in circles on this.

However, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the ****er politicians will stop us ever really leaving anyway, so I think you'll be happy with the eventual outcome.

Yes I get that and I totally get that it's important to you and I'm not critical of that. If that's the only positive then that's your prerogative.

What I mean is, do you think there is something that would have been noticeably better in your life, personally, had we never joined or left at some point in the past? Do you think you'd be wealthier or healthier?