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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #94001
  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    now poland wants its own nukes
    whens the war going to start
    trumps getting his wish about everyone else spending more on war preperation

    Donald Tusk announces military training plan for all Polish men
    2 hours ago
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    Adam Easton
    BBC Warsaw correspondent
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    Work is under way to make all men in Poland undergo military training, Prime Minister Donald Tusk said.

    In a speech to the Polish parliament, Tusk said the government aimed to give full details in the coming months.

    Efforts are being made to "prepare large-scale military training for every adult male in Poland," he told the Sejm.

    "We will try to have a model ready by the end of this year so that every adult male in Poland is trained in the event of war, so that this reserve is comparable and adequate to the potential threats."

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    Tusk said the Ukrainian army has 800,000 soldiers, whilst Russia has around 1.3 million and he wants to increase the size of the Polish army, including reservists, to 500,000 from around 200,000 now.

    "We're talking about the need to have an army of half a million in Poland, including the reservists," he said.

    "It seems if we organise things wisely, and I'm talking constantly with the Minister of Defence, we will have to use several courses of action. That means the reservists, but also intensive training to make those who do not go into the army fully-fledged and competent soldiers during a conflict," he added.

    Tusk said women may also undergo military training, but "war, is still to a greater extent the domain of men".

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    The prime minister said his government was also "carefully examining" France's proposal to include Europe under its nuclear umbrella.

    "I would like to know first of all in detail what it means in terms of the authority over these weapons," he said.

    Tusk pointed out Ukraine was invaded after it got rid of its own nuclear arsenal, adding Warsaw would like to acquire its own nuclear weapons, however remote a possibility that may be.

    "Today, it is clear that we would be safer if we had our own nuclear arsenal, that is beyond doubt. In any case the road to that would be very long and there would have to be a consensus too," he said.

    Poland is already planning to spend 4.7% of its economic output on defence this year, the highest proportion in the Nato alliance.

    Tusk told parliament that spending should increase to 5% of GDP.

    Earlier, President Duda proposed amending the constitution to make defence spending at a level of 4% of GDP compulsory

    The prime minister also said he supports Poland withdrawing from the Ottawa convention that bans the use of antipersonnel landmines, and also possibly from the Dublin convention that bans the use of cluster munitions.

    Poland has ramped up defence spending since Russia's full-scale invasion of neighbouring Ukraine in 2022.

    It has signed arms contracts worth around $20bn (£15.5bn) with the United States to buy 250 M1A2 Abrams battle tanks, 32 F-35 jets, 96 Apache helicopters, Javelin missiles, and artillery rocket systems.

    Warsaw has also signed contracts with South Korea to purchase K2 tanks and FA-50 light combat aircraft.

    There is growing anxiety among Poles about their future security following US President Donald Trump's decision to suspend military supplies to Ukraine. Most Poles believe supporting Ukraine is in their own security interests.

    Mirosław Kaznowski, the deputy mayor of Milanówek, a small town outside Warsaw, told BBC News this week that a friend of his has decided to invest in a start-up to build low-cost underground bomb shelters for businesses and homes.

    His friend said interest was high, he added.
     
    #94002
  3. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    If a united Europe, with a GDP 12 times that of Russia, were to take on Putin militarily, which side would Trump's USA take?
     
    #94003
  4. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Talking to myself again, it seems. For what it's worth, I think that Trump would back Putin. The USA is now our enemy.
     
    #94004
  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    i think he would pick the side he most thought would win
    hes a very clever man
    the cleverest man alive
     
    #94005
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2025
  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Well, a united Europe could crush Russia, but Trump hates the EU and seems to be mysteriously (!) in hock to Putin.

    He'd back Russia.
     
    #94006
  7. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Europe is not united.

    Why does Trump have to pick a side? The US and China may just sit back and let it all play out, then pick up the pieces after...

    A war will between Europe and Russia would last longer than Trumps presedancy, (assuming neither side goes nuclear) so we'd better start buttering up the next guys in line
     
    #94007
  8. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    can i just take this moment to remind you we are full
     
    #94008
  9. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Of sheep
     
    #94009
  10. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Do you really think Trump will go in in 2028? I think free elections in the USA will cease under his Presidency. Hopefully, he'll die or be topped before then, but Vance - a VP imposed on Trump by Elon Musk and Peter Thiel - could well be even worse. We should treat Trump's USA as every bit the enemy that Putin's Russia is.
     
    #94010
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2025

  11. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    Spot on. The biggest winner in all this nonsense will be China, they're playing the long game...
     
    #94011
    Steelmonkey likes this.
  12. WBA2_QPR3

    WBA2_QPR3 Well-Known Member

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    Would Trump step in if China decided to 'take back' Taiwan? I don't think so
     
    #94012
  13. Kilburn

    Kilburn Well-Known Member

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    Here in Canada on Sunday we will have a new Prime Minister as Liberal leader Justin Trudeau steps down, likely Mark Carney, former Governor of Bank of Canada (guiding country through 2008 world financial meltdown) and later England (guiding through BREXIT). Here is Trudeau's final parting shot to Trump:-

    BREAKING: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau unleashes a historic speech scorching Donald Trump's idiocy over his disastrous new tariffs: "This is a very dumb thing to do."

    This is what an actual world leader sounds like...

    "The United States launched a trade war against Canada, their closest partner and ally, their closest friend. At the same time, they're talking about working positively with Russia, appeasing Vladimir Putin, a lying murderous dictator," began Trudeau.

    "Make that make sense."

    Trump's 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico took effect today and the markets are in free fall. The Dow Jones Industrial Average has already plummeted 662 points after plunging 650 points on Monday. The S&P 500 lost 1.3% and the Nasdaq Composite lost 0.9%

    The gullible fools who thought that Trump would be "good for the economy" have had the rug pulled out from under them in record time.

    "Canadians are reasonable and we are polite," Trudeau continued. "But we will not back down from a fight, not when our country and the well-being of everyone in it is at stake. At the moment, the U.S. tariffs came into effect in the early hours of this morning and so did the Canadian response."

    "Canada will be implementing 25% tariffs against $155 billion worth of American goods starting with tariffs on $30 billion worth of goods immediately and tariffs on the remaining $125 billion of American products in twenty-one days time," said Trudeau. "Our tariffs will remain in place until the U.S. tariffs are withdrawn and not a moment sooner."

    "And should these tariffs not cease, we are in active and ongoing discussions with provinces and territories to pursue several non-tariff measures, measures which will demonstrate that there are no winners in a trade war," he threatened.

    "Now just like I did a month ago, I want to speak first directly to the American people. We don't want this," said Trudeau. "We want to work with you as a friend and ally and we don't want to see you hurt either."

    "But your government has chosen to do this to you," he stated bluntly. "As of this morning, markets are down and inflation is set to rise dramatically all across your country."

    "Your government has chosen to put American jobs at risk at the thousands of workplaces that succeed because of materials from Canada or because of consumers in Canada or both," he went on.

    "They've chosen to raise costs for American consumers on everyday essential items like groceries and gas, on major purchases like cars and homes, and everything in between," he continued.

    "They've chosen to harm American national security, impeding access to the abundant critical minerals, energy, building materials, and fertilizers that we have and that the United States needs to grow and prosper," he explained.

    "They've chosen to launch a trade war that will first and foremost harm American families. They've chosen to sabotage their own agenda that was supposed to usher in a new 'Golden Age' for the United States," said Trudeau, taking a direct shot at MAGA's latest inane rhetoric.

    "And they've chosen to undermine the incredible work that we've done together to tackle the scourge that is fentanyl, a drug that must be wiped from the face of the Earth," he added. "So on that point, let me be crystal clear. There is absolutely no justification or need whatsoever for these tariffs today."

    Trudeau then shifted gears to go after Donald Trump directly, the clueless mastermind behind this entire disaster—

    "Now I want to speak directly to one specific American: Donald. In the over eight years you and I have worked together, we've done big things," said Trudeau, appealing to Trump's ego.

    "We signed a historic deal that has created record jobs and growth in both of our countries. We've done big things together on the world stage as Canada and the U.S. have done together for decades, for generations," he continued. "And now we should be working together to ensure even greater prosperity for North Americans in a very uncertain and challenging world."

    "Now, it's not in my habit to agree with The Wall Street Journal but Donald, they point out that even though you're a very smart guy this is a very dumb thing to do. We two friends fighting is exactly what our opponents around the world want to see," said Trudeau.

    "And now to my fellow Canadians: I won't sugarcoat it. This is going to be tough even though we're all going to pull together because that's what we do," he added. "We will use every tool at our disposal so Canadian workers and businesses can weather this storm."

    Canadians are lucky to have someone like Trudeau steering the ship of state through the geopolitical waters of Hurricane Donald. The Canadian Prime Minister is sane, thoughtful, and well-intentioned, all of the things that Trump is not.

    The worst part about this economic nosedive is that it's absolutely pointless and completely avoidable. Trump's demands make absolutely no sense. He's just trying to look tough to appease his MAGA base and dragging all of us along for the ride.

    Buckle up. The Trump economy might soon be the worst in American history.

    Please like and share!

    Follow Occupy Democrats for more.
     
    #94013
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  14. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    No chance.
     
    #94014
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  15. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #94015
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  16. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    I came across this on FB and I'm not quite sure how much of it is weird conspiracy theory and how much true.

    I suspect more true than not.....
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    HERE IS THE OVERVIEW
    America's government is to be demolished, and replaced with structure run as a corporation. "The Free Market" will replace democracy. And the most successful capitalists will run it.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    This is not something new. It has been in the works since Ayn Rand wrote her novels that started the Libertarian movement in the 1950s.
    Step by step, Libertarians have built an organization that usually masqueraded as something else, or used a different title.
    Their most successful method has been to whip up anger against the government, through all forms of media, and manipulate voters into distrusting it. This is best done through causing fear and hatred against "undeserving" people, who seem to be getting rewards that are being denied to THEM.
    People swept up in the anti-government movement have committed civil disobedience and even domestic terrorism in the name of "freedom." Perpetrators of the Oklahoma federal building bombing, or the Bundy National Park standoff, have been a part of the same cause, even if they didn't realize it, and thought they were acting independently as "patriots".
    MAGA is a totally Libertarian movement - and most members do not even know or care that it is. MAGA thinks of itself as followers ONLY of Trump. They are, for the most part, blissfully unaware of the principles of Libertarianism, and embrace just his own entertaining agenda of revenge against everyone he hates, and that is enough for them.
    Same goes for the Religious Right. They are not openly embracing Libertarianism. But the leaders who have risen to the top have rewritten Christianity into a religion where money and power are the primary goals - Faith is mandated, obedience is rewarded with earthly goods, violent retribution is righteous, and judgment is THEIRS, not the Lord's.
    Such cynicism aligns perfectly with the principles of Ayn Rand's philosophy of "Objectivism" - basically that people should be free to follow their self-interests and take whatever they can get. Her books praised the "independent spirit" of "rugged individualism", and mocked altruism, charity and self-sacrifice for others.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Libertarians have rebranded their political movement simply as "Captialism", and go by the name "Republican" now. But whatever name they go by, whether it is "Christian Nationalist," or "Tea Party," or "Proud Boys" or a thousand and one other names, the agenda is the same.
    The goal is what THEY now call "freedom" and "liberty". Namely, no limits by government.
    They want to remove all limits on business in particular. No taxes or regulations. No rules or penalties regarding working conditions or compensation. No rules or penalties regarding consumer safety.
    But they also want to remove all societal limits as well - no rules or restrictions on speech or on actions that oppresses, separates out, culls, or banishes others.
    Their goal is to create a country governed strictly by "merit" - namely, them.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    They envision a new type of government, run like a corporation.
    The top echelon of the new government will be made up of the most successful capitalists. They will act like a Corporate Board, and will make all the major decisions concerning military and trade treaties, and approve funding for domestic necessities like power grids, and infrastructure to support commerce, and financial institutions.
    Things that serve the population, like healthcare, education, social security, mail, and welfare support will be either privatized or turned over to religious charitable organizations. There will be profits to be made by both.
    No more federal funding will be needed.
    And, there will be a return to the class structure of the 1950s. Women and minorities will once again be financially forced back to "their place", because nobody will be forced to hire them or give them equal pay.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    The Board will appoint their CEO. And as in business corporations, the CEO, although he will run the day-to-day operations, he will answer to THEM. (No, Trump has not yet figured this out, of course.)
    Oh, there will still be elections. Just like stock-holders, the American voters will get to decide whether to approve or disapprove of the Board's referendums and appointments. But the days of open elections will be over. The Board will put up THEIR slate of acceptable candidates.
    We will have to take their word, though, on who won.
    Trump made that very clear during his campaign, when he said over and over that we'd only have to vote this once, and never again. And when he thanked Elon for knowing so much about "those voting computers".
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    HOW DID WE GET HERE?
    Just follow some of the most prominent Libertarians.
    Ron Paul and Fred Koch were founders of the Libertarian movement. After his run for president failed in 1988, Ron Paul realized that Libertarian movement was being seen as a party of conspiracy theorists and cranks. So he and his son Rand (named for Ayn Rand) switched over to the Republican Party.
    Fred Koch's sons, Charles and David (The Koch Brothers), founded the Tea Party after the economic crash of 2008, and funded Libertarian candidates as Republicans throughout the country, winning many elections. The Tea Party is now known as the Freedom Caucus.
    The Koch candidate for president in 2016 was Ted Cruz, but once Trump took the lead, they switched their support to him. Trump is not at all driven by patriotic, politcal, religious or philosophical values. He was in it strictly for himself. But that actually made it easier for them to work with him - all they had to do was play to his ego.
    Meanwhile, the Mercer family, top Republican/Libertarian donors, financed Brietbart news and Cambridge Analytica, with Steve Bannon in charge. They had realized that spreading propaganda through the media was THE key to their agenda.
    Conspiracies and supremacist propaganda flooded social media, radio, television, print - WHATEVER way possible - to inflame white working class people with jealousy, hate and fear, and motivate them to vote. Activists were sent into carefully chosen swing districts in both Great Britain and America to register people and get them to the polls.
    To the entire world's shock, Trump won the election here, and BREXIT won in Great Britain. Credit for both upsets were directly linked to Cambridge Analytica's efforts.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Trump's presidency might have failed, but the movement went on. Rewriting, rebranding, and relitigating the past, brainwashing the population through the media to accept their new version of reality, and recharging them to fight for Trump all over again.
    For four years they prepared to his return, writing reams of Executive Orders for him to sign on Day One. And the billionaire donors worked behind the scenes to entice, extort, and unify the Republican Party behind him.
    The conservative billionaires funding the Heritage Foundation (creators of Project 2025) had found a new GURU in Curtis Yarvin, who preached that democratic governments need to be done away with completely, and become corporations instead, run by dictators.
    Vice president JD Vance and his mentor, billionaire Peter Thiel, an advisor in Turmp's first administration, are personal allies of his.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    WHAT IS NEXT?
    To create a Corporate "government", the OLD democratic government needs to be totally discredited and dismantled. People have to be manipulated to hate and distrust it, so they will not only allow it to be destroyed, they will cheer the destruction on.
    In Europe, BREXIT, the withdrawal of Great Britain, caused great damage to the European Union. The same kind of "deep state" suspicions were circulated about the EU organization in Brussels, the economic growth in most countries slowed or halted completely, and the whole organization started to fall apart. Far right parties began to rise in power.
    In America, "deep state" conspiracy theories became accepted as gospel. Trump's Big Lie cause many people to lose faith in elections, and in just about every other institution of our goverment as well. The insurrectionists of January 6th were rebranded as patriots and when Trump was re-elected, we got Elon Musk.
    Make no mistake. The destruction of our government departments and agencies is intentional. The cutting off of all humanitarian funding overseas and the demonization of immigrants and the deportation of "undesirables" is intentional. The antagonistic alienation of our allies is intentional, in order to blow up every military and trade treaty - and OBLIGATION - we have.
    The chaos is intention - to distract us from putting all the dots together and see what is really going on.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    SO WHAT IS THE END GAME?
    World-wide corporate governments, run by the elite captialists, who will carve up the world.
    All the great Empires throughout history were no different. Same game, different name. The rich and powerful rule a rich and powerful elite class, and they in turn rule a vast underclass of obedient and well ordered workers, who live and die at their pleasure.
    It does not matter if you call the ruling class a monarchy and aristocracy, or a premier and oligarchy, or a CEO with a board of directors, and top executives. The structure works the same.
    Putin is a CEO. Xi is a CEO. Saudi prince MBS is a CEO.
    Trump wants to be Putin's equal and ally. He does not understand much. He does not even realize he is not the boss, that his Board of Libertarian Directors is totally in charge now, and that he is only their very useful figurehead, put front and center because of his cult status, to distract all of US.
    But Trump DOES know at least that in order to stay at the top, he needs the most powerful allies he can get.
    And our NATO allies just don't cut it.
    Putin and Xi together are much stronger. Trump wants Putin to be HIS ally instead.
    And there you have it.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Now that you know the basics, start paying attention to things that are coming out from credible, verified, documented, and corroborated sources. When you look at what is happening from this angle, suddenly everything starts to make sense.
    LET ME MAKE ONE FINAL COMMENT
    Libertarianism is not evil. Communism is not evil. Capitalism is not evil. But in the hands of evil people or organizations, ANY philosophy, religion, government, or economic system can become very evil indeed.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
     
    #94016
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2025
  17. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Has your account been hacked by Butthuber? <laugh>

    Seriously though, think you enjoy this podcast on BBC Sounds

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m001324r?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

    The Coming Storm
    America through the looking glass - enter a world where nothing is as it seems. Gabriel Gatehouse investigates.
     
    #94017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2025
  18. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    I did preface it with my own caveats. Project 25 is real and active, though.

    Trump is a puppet.
     
    #94018
  19. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    You might also like this one from Jon Ronson...

    Things Fell Apart
    A series of strange, unexpected human stories from the history of the culture wars.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0011cpr?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
     
    #94019
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  20. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #94020

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