Off Topic The Politics Thread

[daverangers]

It is mentioned in the news in France, but not usually the first story. That said, we are about to have a general election with Marie Le Pen and the 'Front National' seeming to gain more and more support, or at least more and more media coverage. Today the long process of leaving the EU has been triggered, but the real impact of today will only be felt in two years, when the negotiations are (possibly) nearing an end.

 

[daverangers]

With regard to the finances of it: Does anyone really think the money saved from not paying for EU membership will ever actually filter down into your pockets? The cynic in me wonders if this will just give the politicians in Westminster more money to play with, and will never make a difference to the 'ordinary people.' Genuine question, do you really think it will make any difference?

 

[ELLERS]

It is mentioned in the news in France, but not usually the first story. That said, we are about to have a general election with Marie Le Pen and the 'Front National' seeming to gain more and more support, or at least more and more media coverage. Today the long process of leaving the EU has been triggered, but the real impact of today will only be felt in two years, when the negotiations are (possibly) nearing an end.

I think more like 5-7yrs Dave. 2 years is not long enough. It should have been 5 years as there many things to sort.

 

[finglasqpr]

the two worse offenders on here are the Norwegian and the Irishman. Bit like the Romanian and Pole EU officials today who are worried now we are out who are going to subsidise their countries[/QUOTE

I assume you are talking about Oslo and myself?? What are we the "worst offenders" of??? Please enlighten us.

 

[ELLERS]

With regard to the finances of it: Does anyone really think the money saved from not paying for EU membership will ever actually filter down into your pockets?

No.

 

[Stroller]

vii. We should continue to work together to advance and protect our shared European values. Perhaps now more than ever, the world needs the liberal, democratic values of Europe. We want to play our part to ensure that Europe remains strong and prosperous and able to lead in the world, projecting its values and defending itself from security threats.

I rather like that.

It's a shame she had to spoil it with this....

If, however, we leave the European Union without an agreement the default position is that we would have to trade on World Trade Organisation terms. In security terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

Mrs May's statement contains the lines, "We must pay unique attention to the UK;s special relationship with the Republic of Ireland and the importance of the peace process in Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is the only EU state with a land border with the UK. We want to avoid a return to a hard border between our two countries, to be able to maintain the common travel area between us, and to make sure that the UK's withdrawal from the EU does not harm the Republic of Ireland".

That is good news from our point of view.

Mrs TR read or heard a piece recently about the border between the North & ROI and because the ROI will still be in the EU they (The EU) could insist on a border being re-imposed. Now admittedly it's unlikely to happen especially as neither the UK or ROI have any desire for such a thing but the EU seems to have the final say as it relates to an EU Country........

 

[finglasqpr]

Mrs TR read or heard a piece recently about the border between the North & ROI and because the ROI will still be in the EU they (The EU) could insist on a border being re-imposed. Now admittedly it's unlikely to happen especially as neither the UK or ROI have any desire for such a thing but the EU seems to have the final say as it relates to an EU Country........

Yes, that could easily happen if the EU insist on it and also if the UK want to completely close doors against possible illegal immigrants coming through Ireland to get to UK territory. The problem with a hard.closed border if it happens will be the perception it will give to Nationalists in the North. People are happy with the current open border as they see trade and people moving both ways freely and they don't feel they are actually crossing a border. The Shinners (Sinn Fein) are saying a hard border will put the whole peace process at risk. That is the big danger for the whole island.

 

[Tramore Ranger]

Yes, that could easily happen if the EU insist on it and also if the UK want to completely close doors against possible illegal immigrants coming through Ireland to get to UK territory. The problem with a hard.closed border if it happens will be the perception it will give to Nationalists in the North. People are happy with the current open border as they see trade and people moving both ways freely and they don't feel they are actually crossing a border. The Shinners (Sinn Fein) are saying a hard border will put the whole peace process at risk. That is the big danger for the whole island.

It's unlikely to happen as there are something like 250 border crossings between the North and ROI and neither Country has the personnel to cover them all.....a lot of this is playing on the worse case scenario.....

 

[finglasqpr]

It's unlikely to happen as there are something like 250 border crossings between the North and ROI and neither Country has the personnel to cover them all.....a lot of this is playing on the worse case scenario.....

So if they maintain a "soft border" and no tariffs on trade either way between the UK and ROI, maybe the UK and Ireland are standing together in insisting the same should apply to the rest of the EU too, ie no tariffs on trade. That would be the simplest way for everybody.

 

[ELLERS]

ROI is the underbelly of the UK (I mean borders) however, passports will still have to be checked coming into the UK. Agree if someone wanted to enter England they may go via ROI but they will still need to show passports when entering this country.
On the Irish border, it's going to be harder but doesn't a passport say county first then Europe. Is it not easy to check who is Irish and who isn't? I am sure something will be sorted.

 

[sb_73]

vii. We should continue to work together to advance and protect our shared European values. Perhaps now more than ever, the world needs the liberal, democratic values of Europe. We want to play our part to ensure that Europe remains strong and prosperous and able to lead in the world, projecting its values and defending itself from security threats.

I rather like that.

It's a shame she had to spoil it with this....

If, however, we leave the European Union without an agreement the default position is that we would have to trade on World Trade Organisation terms. In security terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened.

I couldn't work out whether she is tying an economic agreement inextricably to a security agreement. Surely we can have the latter without the former? And it would be in everyone's best interests to continue and improve current security collaboration?

 

[Tramore Ranger]

So if they maintain a "soft border" and no tariffs on trade either way between the UK and ROI, maybe the UK and Ireland are standing together in insisting the same should apply to the rest of the EU too, ie no tariffs on trade. That would be the simplest way for everybody.

Absolutely as to impose tariffs on EU goods is going to cause huge upheaval. Mr Volkswagon in Germany doesn't want tariffs on exporting his cars to the UK, nor do the French on any of their goods, or the Spanish and so on as then the UK would be charging tariffs on goods they export to the EU, to be honest what would be the point?......At the end of the day I would be surprised if the status quo on trade isn't maintained and goods to and from the UK remain tariff free.......

 

[sb_73]

So if they maintain a "soft border" and no tariffs on trade either way between the UK and ROI, maybe the UK and Ireland are standing together in insisting the same should apply to the rest of the EU too, ie no tariffs on trade. That would be the simplest way for everybody.

I.e. The UK stays in the single market and the customs union. Already ruled out. From the UK side the devaluation of the £ has already made our exports more attractive, tariffs would have to be huge (most WTO ones are well below 10%) to make them uncompetitive. Of course, stuff traded in € is more expensive and would get even more so with tariffs. Tariffs are the easy bit, just agree not to have any, it's the standards, regulations and customs bureaucracy which would hamper trade.

 

[Stroller]

I couldn't work out whether she is tying an economic agreement inextricably to a security agreement. Surely we can have the latter without the former? And it would be in everyone's best interests to continue and improve current security collaboration?

It seems like a threat to me.

 

[finglasqpr]

ROI is the underbelly of the UK (I mean borders) however, passports will still have to be checked coming into the UK. Agree if someone wanted to enter England they may go via ROI but they will still need to show passports when entering this country.
On the Irish border, it's going to be harder but doesn't a passport say county first then Europe. Is it not easy to check who is Irish and who isn't? I am sure something will be sorted.

Not correct Ellers. At the moment, Irish and UK citizens can travel freely between each country without showing a passport. That has been the case for nearly the last 70 years before either country joined the EU. They call it a "common travel area". Both countries are saying they wish to maintain this common travel area. I travelled over for the Barnsley match the other week on my driving licence only as Aer Lingus will allow you to travel to the UK with any form of photo ID. I didn't have a valid passport as I was waiting on my new one to arrive. Ryanair on the other hand will not allow you to board any of their flights (including UK) unless your photo ID is a passport. Flights from ROI arriving at UK airports are treated like Channel Island flights. Immigration officers are not present. At airports on this end, UK arrivals have to clear immigration but a UK driving licence will be sufficient to gain admission. Cross border roads or arrivals by ferry are not subject to passport controls.

 

[ELLERS]

maybe the UK and Ireland are standing together in insisting the same should apply to the rest of the EU too, ie no tariffs on trade. That would be the simplest way for everybody.

Finglas I love Europe and still have all intentions of working/living/holidaying there (unless they Ban the British)
All along I have hoped that something good will come out of this. For me, the EU wasn't working. I understand there were good and bad things about it but the fact that they couldn't reform or listen to members was their downfall. I will not feel any different towards Europe and hope we can all come out of this happy.
I won't listen to all the 'project fear' and saber rattling because at the end of the day it comes down to money and that's why I am optimistic.

 

[ELLERS]

Not correct Ellers. At the moment, Irish and UK citizens can travel freely between each country without showing a passport. That has been the case for nearly the last 70 years before either country joined the EU. They call it a "common travel area". Both countries are saying they wish to maintain this common travel area. I travelled over for the Barnsley match the other week on my driving licence only as Aer Lingus will allow you to travel to the UK with any form of photo ID. I didn't have a valid passport as I was waiting on my new one to arrive. Ryanair on the other hand will not allow you to board any of their flights (including UK) unless your photo ID is a passport. Flights from ROI arriving at UK airports are treated like Channel Island flights. Immigration officers are not present. At airports on this end, UK arrivals have to clear immigration but a UK driving licence will be sufficient to gain admission. Cross border roads or arrivals by ferry are not subject to passport controls.

Well sadly I think that easy access will change.

 

[finglasqpr]

Well sadly I think that easy access will change.

Theresa May's opinion is different to your's. She specifically said in her speech that she wishes to maintain the common travel area.

 

[ELLERS]

Theresa May's opinion is different to your's. She specifically said in her speech that she wishes to maintain the common travel area.

mmmm? Do you believe that?