Be interesting to see whether Reform field candidates against Braverman, Francois, Rees Mogg and other Tory right wingers
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Farage and Reform appeal mainly to people who don't like foreigners. Sadly, there are a lot of them in this country. His constant refrain is that everything would be OK if we got rid of all the immigrants, and none of the main parties will have the balls to challenge him on this. The fact is that the economy requires a significant level of immigrant workers to function successfully. I heard him this morning blaming the failings of the NHS on all the immigrants, when the truth is that it's immigrants that keep it going.
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Is that the future you're hoping for, Goldie - a Tory party consisting solely of Farage and a bunch a far right fruit loops?
It's the future I predict, Strolls. Look what's happening in Europe. And Braverman may be a fruit loop to No Borders supporters, but she and those like her are addressing vital issues of culture, capacity and security that mass immigration has thrown up. An increasing number of voters, including recent immigrants, are concerned about it.
No Borders supporters
Without immigration, the UK population is falling, and the ratio of working people to retired people is shrinking dramatically. How would your far right Farage party deal with this, I wonder?
No Borders supporters
Without immigration, the UK population is falling, and the ratio of working people to retired people is shrinking dramatically. How would your far right Farage party deal with this, I wonder?
Far right
!!A large proportion of the UK aren't working. A few are genuinely disabled, some with serious mental health problems. But too many are swinging the lead claiming mental problems ti get benefits, some have lost the habit working during covid and enjoy their benefits lifestyle (supplemented by occasional black economy jobs) too much to work, and some have genuine anxiety problems after living in their home 24/7 during and after Covid and need help to get working again, which is often the best cure for anxiety and lack of self esteem. Both the Tories and Labour have recognised the problem.
So focus on those first, and allow only highly qualified immigrants in (initially on a net zero basis - one citizen leaving, one immigrant in), but don't deplete Third World countries of vital professionals like doctors, nurses etc which are vitally needed in those countries.
But even if you get all these, in your view, malingerers, working it’s only a temporary fix. With a continually falling birth rate and aging population the potential for continual economic growth, the core of capitalism, is dead. Witness Japan, in stagnation for 20 plus years largely due to demographic reasons and with virtually no immigration. That’s the model we are moving towards, very rapidly with no new immigration.Far right
A large proportion of the UK aren't working. A few are genuinely disabled, some with serious mental health problems. But too many are swinging the lead claiming mental problems ti get benefits, some have lost the habit working during covid and enjoy their benefits lifestyle (supplemented by occasional black economy jobs) too much to work, and some have genuine anxiety problems after living in their home 24/7 during and after Covid and need help to get working again, which is often the best cure for anxiety and lack of self esteem. Both the Tories and Labour have recognised the problem.
So focus on those first, and allow only highly qualified immigrants in (initially on a net zero basis - one citizen leaving, one immigrant in), but don't deplete Third World countries of vital professionals like doctors, nurses etc which are vitally needed in those countries.
A world of no economic growth, where people don’t get new stuff all the time, just like it was until the invention of credit and banking, might not be a bad thing in my view, as long as we can get the finite pool of wealth more evenly distributed.
But that’s not what Nige is promising I think. He says we can be richer because we have no foreigners entering the country. When this doesn’t work it will be the fault of big business, the mysterious ‘elite’, the illuminati etc etc. there is always someone to blame for your own failure.
Far right
A large proportion of the UK aren't working. A few are genuinely disabled, some with serious mental health problems. But too many are swinging the lead claiming mental problems ti get benefits, some have lost the habit working during covid and enjoy their benefits lifestyle (supplemented by occasional black economy jobs) too much to work, and some have genuine anxiety problems after living in their home 24/7 during and after Covid and need help to get working again, which is often the best cure for anxiety and lack of self esteem. Both the Tories and Labour have recognised the problem.
So focus on those first, and allow only highly qualified immigrants in (initially on a net zero basis - one citizen leaving, one immigrant in), but don't deplete Third World countries of vital professionals like doctors, nurses etc which are vitally needed in those countries.
Farage might not seem far right to you, but to most normal people he's the epitome.
How many people would you say there are out there who could be working but enjoy a 'benefits lifestyle'? Of course there will be a few, but I would suggest that it's a tiny number compared to the levels of vacancies in the economy. The sick and mentally ill are handy scapegoats, though. The fact is that we have an ageing population and a low birth rate. Getting a few scroungers into work won't touch the sides.
Your concern for Third World countries is touching, but here's another suggestion - why don't we pay the doctors and nurses that we've already trained at great expense sufficient to stop them leaving to go abroad themselves? I expect Labour to make this a priority.
Populations in countries in the West have increased exponentially over the last 100 years, and in Europe, particularly over the last 20 or so years. If we value the environment and want to be generally self-sufficient in agriculture, we can't keep importing net numbers equivalent to cities the size of Birmingham every two or three years. Western countries have to find a sustainable model, so I agree with you that a world with no economic growth might be desirable.
On legal immigration, I'll be interested to hear what Farage and Reform's pitch is, but I doubt it is anti-foreigner per se. He wants net immigration numbers down to zero for now. That doesn't mean no foreigners coming in, but those that do must be skilled, capable of working so not living on welfare, and of integrating and not forming sectarian ghettos, and they must not be a threat to this country's security.
On illegal immigration, Reform claims it is legal to turn the dinghys around and tow them back to France. Liberal France will object, so will the EU in Brussels, but for me, the key is for the UK to make allies with the increasing number of EU member states (led by right wing governments) that are prepared to take exceptional steps to get their illegal immigration numbers down. Sadly, we will have to endure 5 years of a Labour government staffed in Parliament by glorified civic counsellors before such an approach could take place.
You mean most "normal" people like you, a former supporter of Corbyn who wanted unilateral disarmament? Labour are changing their tune fast on that now. The One Nation Tories are nothing more than liberals. They'd fit in hugely well into the Lib Dems. The Bravermans are right wing, and so is Farage. With the global threats escalating daily, it would be a good time for a right wing government, but we'll have to make do with Labour for now. I hope to Christ, David Lammy isn't Foreign Secretary.
I repeat, both the Tories and Labour recognise that there's a problem in the UK workforce. European countries have reverted to normal post-Covid working practices far quicker than the UK has. It's fact. I can't give figures, I doubt even government has them, in the same way they haven't a clue how many illegals are working in the black economy, and where all the Rwanda candidates have gone to (try looking in Ireland)
NHS. Labour can only work with funds they have. I don't expect them to give in to junior doctors overnight. If they do they have to get money from somewhere else. Private schools and non doms money will not spread far. And I repeat what I said last time. Our doctors and nurses are going to jurisdictions where private health plays a major part. Streeting is adamantly against losing "free at the point of delivery" but will have to use private health to cut waiting lists. If he does't come up with more radical ideas for the NHS, it will continue to founder under Labour.
I think Farage is worse than a Braverman because I really doubt he’s sat at home seething about immigrants but he’s found a grift that works brilliantly for him so he’s acting a role. Braverman genuinely just loves the idea of being cruel which appeals to a sizeable demographic as much as we don’t like it.
Anyway Nige is on the campaign trail and just took a milkshake to the gob so all good.
I personally think Farage is an opportunist **** but to throw milkshake over him is out of order. There's a cost of living crisis still going on ffs
All the sympathy and pearl-clutching wouldn’t have been worth it. Piss would’ve been ideal but you can’t have it all. Fish guts maybe.
I'd give anyone who attacks any politician or prospective politician an immediate jail sentence. We've already had one MP, a young mother, shot to death, and another stabbed to death. The authorities need to take it seriously, or physical abuse of parliamentary representitives becomes a norm
Jails are pretty full, a slap on the wrist nowadays.