Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Staines R's said:
Then I refer you to my post 83054….you definitely ARE one of the usual suspects I was alluding to :emoticon-0136-giggl
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Ah, you dodged the question, no change there then.

What amuses me is that you see virtually the whole of the international community at "the usual suspects" and nutters like Hitchens who is about a credible as David Icke as mainstream :emoticon-0100-smile
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
No, I've read his articles before. Does it tell you anything that the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems are united and determined that belligerence should not win re the invasion of Ukraine? As indeed, the EU appears to be.
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So you're happy for us to keep supplying arms and prolonging this war indefinately rather than seeking a diplomatic solution?
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Ah, you dodged the question, no change there then.

What amuses me is that you see virtually the whole of the international community at "the usual suspects" and nutters like Hitchens who is about a credible as David Icke as mainstream :emoticon-0100-smile
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I didn’t actually see any question….more the ramblings of someone who’s probably never seen a dead body in their life but watches war films and believes in its glory.
Death and violence isn’t a game Goldie….it’s horrible and nasty and messy. It’s not about goodies and baddies…..
 
Staines R's said:
I didn’t actually see any question….more the ramblings of someone who’s probably never seen a dead body in their life but watches war films and believes in its glory.
Death and violence isn’t a game Goldie….it’s horrible and nasty and messy. It’s not about goodies and baddies…..
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You dodged the question again! And you called Ellers slippery <laugh>
 
Steelmonkey said:
So you're happy for us to keep supplying arms and prolonging this war indefinately rather than seeking a diplomatic solution?
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There is no common ground at present between Russia and Ukraine, unless the international community sells Ukraine out. As had been stated by both Sunak and Starmer, the principle at stake here is massive if Russian is not to be encouraged into aggression against other independent states in the future.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
There is no common ground at present between Russia and Ukraine, unless the international community sells Ukraine out. As had been stated by both Sunak and Starmer, the principle at stake here is massive if Russian is not to be encouraged into aggression against other independent states in the future.
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You hate Starmer i thought ?
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
There is no common ground at present between Russia and Ukraine, unless the international community sells Ukraine out. As had been stated by both Sunak and Starmer, the principle at stake here is massive if Russian is not to be encouraged into aggression against other independent states in the future.
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Who else is he going to invade? Almost every other country on Russias borders are either members of NATO or are already loosley under Russian control via puppet governments.

By continually providing Ukraine with offensive as well as defensive arms this war will drag on for years.

I said right at the beginning of this conflict that war is a breakdown of international diplomacy. How else do you see this conflict being resolved? Ukraine defeating Russia, marching across Gorky Park with Putins head on a stick? Both sides need to find a solution that prevents thousands more deaths, and the international community needs to help find that common ground.
 
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Steelmonkey said:
Who else is he going to invade? Almost every other country on Russias borders are either members of NATO or are already loosley under Russian control via puppet governments.

By continually providing Ukraine with offensive as well as defensive arms this war will drag on for years.

I said right at the beginning of this conflict that war is a breakdown of international diplomacy. How else do you see this conflict being resolved? Ukraine defeating Russia, marching across Gorky Park with Putins head on a stick? Both sides need to find a solution that prevents thousands more deaths, and the international community needs to help find that common ground.
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Moldova isn't in Nato. Nor are Finland or Sweden at present. NATO membership doesn't mean there could not be attempts by Russia at subversion. Nor does it deter Russia if it wishes to intervene in disputes as it did in Syria, which many felt was a cop-out by the West.

The issue of a diplomatic solution is timing. You never settle such a dispute from a position of weakness, which Ukraine is in now. Look at any war, they end when either one side wins on the battlefield (eg WW2) or one side is battered into submission, including financially, (eg WW1).

I'd love to say we were there now in Ukraine, but we aren't. Of course, the international community should stand by, ready to use its good offices, should there be a chance of peace. But at present, there's a huge gulf between Ukraine and Russia.
 
Steelmonkey said:
Irrespective of party or political beliefs, why would you not seek out an end to this war via peaceful means rather than the perpetual warmongering of some intent on prolonging it?
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Of course. As I said in my earlier post to you, it's a question of timing. Ukraine do not want to give up their sovereign territory, and many lives of their soldiers and citizens have been sacrificed to maintain it. Do you think Ukraine should be sold down the river in order to appease Russia?
 
Steelmonkey said:
Who else is he going to invade? Almost every other country on Russias borders are either members of NATO or are already loosley under Russian control via puppet governments.

By continually providing Ukraine with offensive as well as defensive arms this war will drag on for years.

I said right at the beginning of this conflict that war is a breakdown of international diplomacy. How else do you see this conflict being resolved? Ukraine defeating Russia, marching across Gorky Park with Putins head on a stick? Both sides need to find a solution that prevents thousands more deaths, and the international community needs to help find that common ground.
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Pah, what do you know about conflict…….anyone would think you’d been in the bloody army the way you go on.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Of course. As I said in my earlier post to you, it's a question of timing. Ukraine do not want to give up their sovereign territory, and many lives of their soldiers and citizens have been sacrificed to maintain it. Do you think Ukraine should be sold down the river in order to appease Russia?
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There has to be comprimise somewhere if the war is to end. Both Ukraine and Russia will need to give something - whether it's land, repatriation, remuneration? No idea, but then I'm not a diplomat bartering for a peace. I thought Stans idea of UN monitored elections in both Crimea and Donbas would be a start, but I also understand that both parties would be reluctant for this at this stage. However, continually pumping $billions worth of arms into the country isn't going to bring either of them to the table any time soon.
 
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