Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Col got no issues with anything you’ve posted at all. I’ve said my piece on the Scottish thing, that I believe it to be a bit of a red herring and like someone else mentioned, maybe a wedge for Scottish independence?
Ive not read the bill fully but what I’ve read kinda doesn’t make sense, having experience with a trans child and friends who have trans kids this wouldn’t affect them in respect of length ‘living as’ as they have all been doing it for years!! Please remember when it talks about legally changing gender it relates to legal matters only, not anything else, this can be reversed although I think you’ll be surprised how little it would happen.
I absolutely accept this next bit doesn’t exactly fit with the teen aspect as it relates to people who go through transitioning, but 98% of people who begin medical intervention do not change their minds and of the 2% that do, the vast majority state lack of support and societal and family pressures as the reason they do.
If your problems with the wording on the bill I’m not even disagreeing with you at all there.
I think you have all got to why there is (apparently) more gay and trans people today than before...because you can both socially and medically.
In the 50, 60...you could be chemically castrated and ostracised and driven to suicide by being gay ( Turing)
Then it became acceptable, then it became a norm.
Only when homosexuality approached norm did we see trans people ...who could only express themselves atthat point by cross dressing.
But the medical science discovered how to alter your outward appearance of gender, and so your inner being..and additionally people became rich enough to afford expensive surgery ( which I now know can be accessed in a very few cases on nhs).
This is a social trend...both natural and more trendy ( some but not all young people and parents can/ are being influenced by the media by being told how cool it is to experience their other gender and allow our children too aswell).
Personally, when young I wanted to be a boy, I wanted to do boy things, be a scientist and play football for QPR .... it wasn't until I was 30 did I discover that the biggest bestest thing in the whole world was to be a mother. I have experienced a spectrum
We are all a spectrum of our gender...depending on hormone levels, upbringing, social interaction and influence.
And just a warning boys, please do not go near oestrogen levels in the water caused by women on the pill, being the reason for a raise in this...not only is it wrong .. if men took more responsibility...fewer women would have to be on the pill
In the 50, 60...you could be chemically castrated and ostracised and driven to suicide by being gay ( Turing)
Then it became acceptable, then it became a norm.
Only when homosexuality approached norm did we see trans people ...who could only express themselves atthat point by cross dressing.
But the medical science discovered how to alter your outward appearance of gender, and so your inner being..and additionally people became rich enough to afford expensive surgery ( which I now know can be accessed in a very few cases on nhs).
This is a social trend...both natural and more trendy ( some but not all young people and parents can/ are being influenced by the media by being told how cool it is to experience their other gender and allow our children too aswell).
Personally, when young I wanted to be a boy, I wanted to do boy things, be a scientist and play football for QPR .... it wasn't until I was 30 did I discover that the biggest bestest thing in the whole world was to be a mother. I have experienced a spectrum
We are all a spectrum of our gender...depending on hormone levels, upbringing, social interaction and influence.
And just a warning boys, please do not go near oestrogen levels in the water caused by women on the pill, being the reason for a raise in this...not only is it wrong .. if men took more responsibility...fewer women would have to be on the pill
I didn’t call trans people gays, to clear things up, the point was that someone mentioned that trans was seemingly a new thing and not really a thing when they were younger, something along those lines, and I was pointing out that throughout history there has been massive rises be that of left handed people or homosexuals when they were not seen as wrong/evil/instruments of Satan etc and were in need of correction. In my opinion when society changes, more knowledge, representation and acceptance is there the more people who fit that demographic feel able to be themselves with less fear of repercussions.
Strange that all those who are outraged over the safety of women on an extremely flawed hypothetical, don’t seem all that outraged when we have a single police force where 800 men, are under investigation for violent/sexual crimes against women and a single male police officer has admitted to over 20 offences. You just have to look at the media and social media it’s rife with this hypocrisy, it’s almost as though some of these people don’t give a **** about the safety of women and are just using the flawed hypothetical situation to push an anti trans stance.
There was a famous person sorry cant remember who, a pop star of some description I think, who has flip flopped their personal pronouns from she to they and back. Obviously that's their perogative but it would be interesting to see some stats on how regular this sort of behaviour is, if it is.
It's such a complex issue which people at the sharp end of the debate often fail to recognise. Broadly I think most people would be supportive of folk living and identifying however they wish but there are so many considerations and it needs proper engagement.
Well said Beth, I've been on top of my pull out game for a while now!
I thought the debate was about the age that kids could self identify as trans. That and whether trans people are a threat to women are the things that I don’t feel qualified to discuss. I’d guess that the % of the population who feel that they are in the wrong body has been the same forever (think I read 0.4-0.6% somewhere) but this small minority is just more visible and vocal now.
Im standing outside my car having locked my keys and dog in it awaiting rescue by the RAC. In these circumstances I think you can safely ignore anything a cretin like me says.
I’ve left the debate mate, so couldn’t give a toss either way…..hope you get the car sorted soon
Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.
How many transgender prisoners are there in women's jails? I'd be interested to see those numbers.
On the oestrogen in water stuff, Beth, I wasn't point scoring as between men and women. I just felt this was a possible explanation for the high level of gender dysphoria among school kids. You're the scientist, not me, but this article in the New Scientist would suggest oestrogen does have a part to play:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7440-gender-bending-chemicals-found-to-feminise-boys/
I don't know, but another question might be, how many sexual predators use the guise of transgenderhood to dupe their way into women's prisons? If the Scottish bill became law, common sense says whatever the figure is, it would rise.
You don't know? Where did you get the 'official figures' about transgender sex attacks from?
This gives 2019 figures.
Seven sex attacks in women’s jails by transgender convicts
David Brown
Monday May 11 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Law
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Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.
Male prisoners who were transferred to women’s jails during gender reassignment and women inmates who are transitioning committed seven of the 124 sex attacks recorded between 2010 and 2018. They occurred at HMP Low Newton in Co Durham, Foston Hall in Derbyshire, Peterborough, Bronzefield in Middlesex and New Hall, West Yorkshire.
Karen White, a child abuser who dressed as a woman but was still legally a man, was jailed for life in 2018 for sexually assaulting two prisoners at HMP New Hall and the rape of a woman while he was outside jail.
Lord Keen of Elie, the Ministry of Justice spokesman in the Lords, told Labour’s Baroness McDonagh, in a written answer that there had been five attacks. The Ministry of Justice later updated the response to include White’s attacks.
The Ministry of Justice said: “Since 2010, out of the 124 sexual assaults that occurred in the female [prison] estate a total of seven were against females in custody perpetrated by transgender individuals.” It is not known what gender the attackers had been born.
Nicola Williams, director of the campaign group Fair Play For Women, told The Mail on Sunday: “These new figures are another warning about something everyone knows: Allowing males into female prisons is dangerous for women.” The group says that half of all known transgender prisoners have at least one previous conviction for sex offences. Male-born trans prisoners who have legally changed their gender have been automatically sent to women’s prisons since 2010. Those transitioning have been allowed to seek a transfer to women’s jails in England and Wales since 2016. Last year 14 prisoners sought to move to a prison of opposite gender, with seven men allowed to.
Women’s prisons had 34 transgender inmates in April 2019, 11 of whom identified as female. Prison Service statistics do not include those prisoners born male who have already legally changed sex.
Transgender inmates make up about one per cent of the 3,600 female jail population but are responsible for 5.6 per cent of sexual assaults in women’s prisons. A Prison Service spokesman said: “All sexual assaults in prison are referred to the police and we have safeguards in place to manage the risks posed by all those in custody.”
Decisions on whether transgender prisoners are allowed to move are considered by Complex Transgender Case Boards which are designed to ensure “checks and balances are in place to manage the risks both to the transgender prisoners themselves and others”.
A report by the Ministry of Justice in 2019 found that half of prisons in England and Wales said they had at least one transgender inmate, with a total of 163 prisoners presenting in a different gender to their birth. Of these, 130 said they identifi
The government last year allocated a separate block at Downview women’s prison near Sutton, Surrey, for male-born transgender prisoners. Inmates, reported to include sex offenders, slept and showered in the unit but could mix with woman inmates.
Rory Stewart, a former prisons minister, said last month that there had been “situations of male prisoners self-identifying as females then raping staff”, though Lord Keen said there were “no reported incidents” of female staff being raped by trans inmates.
“Since 2010, out of the 124 sexual assaults that occurred in the female [prison] estate a total of seven were against females in custody perpetrated by transgender individuals.”
Seven is seven too many, but I'd suggest that less than one a year is a pretty small number in the scheme of things. To extrapolate this into 'Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners' is a bit of a hyperbolic stretch, I would say.
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RAC turned up in 20 minutes, car opened in another 5. My feeling of extreme foolishness will last much longer. To be fair on myself (and if I’m not who else will be?) I am 62 next Saturday and this is the first time I’ve ever locked myself out of car or home……………as far as I can remember.I’ve left the debate mate, so couldn’t give a toss either way…..hope you get the car sorted soon
Yes, it's too many but arguably it's just about containable at present. But if the Scots law came into play, removing the need for men (in this case) to get a medical diagnosis or provide evidence of having lived for two years in their acquired gender, then any Scottish sexual predator in any UK prison could insist that he had self-diagnosed and it was his human right to be placed in a female prison. And the UK government would no doubt be sued if it failed to impliment this.
I’ve locked myself out of the house more than once….scary how easy it was to get twin 1 to put his arm through the letter box and open the door.
Glad they weren’t too long…..thoughts and prayers