1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    I wouldn’t say it annoyed me....I just saw it as a fact of life and a means to an end. The Left Wing/Worker led cause for Brexit was always going to be ignored by both sides....and it suited both sides to ignore it.
    To be honest, in politics, you sometimes have to keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.......and now the common cause has been achieved, the real battle can begin. Though to be fair, the battle against the Tories is all but won.....
     
    #82021
    Willhoops likes this.
  2. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    8,818
    Likes Received:
    8,851
    For now, the problem is after Labour pick up an absolute **** show it’s going to be difficult to see positive results for the masses. If they can cut back on ****s getting richer off the public purse through very questionable methods at best and start to redirect those funds into public services and infrastructure we are heading in the right direction.

    if he’s still about I’ll find it interesting seeing what direction Starmer takes, I’m not convinced, although it won’t matter how good a job he’s doing certain people and elements of the media will do a hatchet job, politics really has been dragged to the level of reality tv.
     
    #82022
    Staines R's likes this.
  3. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    I’m definitely not convinced that Labour in its current guise is the real answer, but then again, if it means that the country has moved further to my way of thinking, then I’d probably take that right now. I’ll give them a go.....but sadly after what happened with Blair, I feel I might be disappointed.
     
    #82023
    Willhoops likes this.
  4. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    8,818
    Likes Received:
    8,851
    Spot on, the issue being is a jump too far away from where we are politically is it’s way too much for both media and those they influence. So for me that’s why Labour place themselves where they do. Like you I’m sure it’ll be a disappointment… but have to realise it’s probably as far away from the current lot we have any chance of getting elected. One or two steps isn’t enough but it’s better than nothing.
     
    #82024
    Staines R's likes this.
  5. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,998
    Likes Received:
    13,602
    My analogy on this is simple.
    Out on a Saturday night, miles from home and after midnight, a bus turns up. It is going pretty close to your home, say to the next village........Do you take it, or wait and hope another one comes along and that it takes you to your doorstep.

    You take the one that is going in roughly the right direction...better than staying where you are or going on a bus that goes nowhere near where you want to go.
     
    #82025
  6. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,354
    Likes Received:
    16,159


    What a tool
     
    #82026
  7. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    This is worrying...

    Joe Wallen
    India’s war on Christians
      • 24 December 2022, 6:00am
      please log in to view this image

      Credit: Getty images
    • Christmas is usually Nayomi Gracy’s favourite time of year. But this year, Gracy is feeling more fearful than cheerful. Right-wing Hindu groups have recently led a succession of violent attacks against her Christian community in the southern Indian state of Karnata

      When she attends church in her home city of Bangalore on Christmas Day, the congregation will be guarded by armed police. ‘It is a mental torture. They say we cannot go to church or they will kill us but the police have promised to protect us and to help us,’ said Gracy.

      India’s historic Christian community dates back to 52AD. It is believed the Apostle Thomas, better known as Doubting Thomas, arrived in the southern India state of Kerala and baptised a small group of residents.

      Today the community should, in theory, form an important part of India’s secular tapestry. There are 28 million or so Indian Christians who constitute around two per cent of the country’s total population.

      Yet the community’s very survival has never been under such threat. In 2022, there have already been over 550 violent attacks on India’s Christians, according to the United Christian Front (UCF), an Indian NGO. This is the largest number for any year on record.

      India is ruled by the Bharatiya Janata party (BJP) and headed by Narendra Modi, the country’s hugely popular prime minister, who was re-elected in 2019. Under Modi’s tenure, few would doubt that India doesn’t deserve a seat at the global top table. The country’s economy recently overtook the United Kingdom to become the fifth largest on the planet.
      For India’s Christians, the future has never been so uncertain

    • To consolidate their power domestically, though, the BJP has implemented a series of divisive Hindu nationalist policies. Their aim has been to appeal to the country’s majority Hindu electorate at the expense of its minorities.

      This has included stoking hatred against India’s Christians. The BJP has proposed state benefits be withdrawn from Christians and that believers should be banned from holding political office in the country.

      The BJP’s rhetoric has emboldened India’s myriad of powerful right-wing Hindu groups, like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), which has around six million members. These groups are now increasingly leading violent mob attacks against Christians, their churches and pastors.

      On Sunday, in the central Indian state of Chhattisgarh, there were 20 coordinated attacks against the state’s Christians. Over 200 people were forced from their homes.

      ‘This coordinated wave of attacks against the Christian residents of Bastar [in Chhattisgarh] is shameful and highly condemnable,’ said Dr Michael Williams, the National President of the UCF.

      ‘This message of hate being spread by the RSS has no room in India and the authorities must deal with the perpetrators at once. They are causing irreparable damage to the fabric of our nation.’

      These groups broadly allege that Christians are trying to convert Hindus and change the religious make-up of India. Hindus currently make up 80 per cent of India’s population; the proportion of Christians in the country, around two per cent, has remained the same since the 1950s.

      The country’s police and judiciary are often allied or at least sympathetic to groups like the RSS, particularly in rural India, which creates an atmosphere of impunity.


      Reena Kamari, 26, who lives in the village of Bichigada in the central Indian state of Jharkhand was the victim of one such terrifying attack. Kamari converted from Hinduism to Christianity in 2017. A very sickly child, she says her health ailments improved as soon as she started praying to Jesus Christ – it was a miracle, she believes.

      In April this year, she was dragged from her home by a baying mob into her village square where she was beaten unconscious after refusing to convert back to Hinduism. She says she didn’t recognise those that assaulted her and believes they came from a different village or nearby town.

      ‘The police only made arrests after the incident got traction on social media but my attackers were released after a couple of days and they walk free around where I live,’ said Kamari. ‘I am thinking of fleeing my village as the other residents won’t let me practise my faith and I often get shouted at in the street or people tell my friends not to speak to me.’

      The Alliance Defending Freedom, a Christian non-profit in the United States, has noted a 220 per cent increase in violent attacks on India’s Christians since 2014, when Modi was first elected. Open Doors International, a non-denominational Christian organisation supporting Christians globally, ranked India as the tenth most dangerous country in the world to be a Christian in 2022. India was outside the top 30 in 2014.

      Indian government legislation has worsened the treatment of the country’s Christians. At least nine states have introduced anti-conversion laws, which are being used to detain Christians for months on end if they practise their faith in public places.

      At least 450 Christian charities have also had their funding removed in India since 2011, according to Indian government data. Last December, Delhi announced that it was freezing accounts belonging to Mother Theresa’s Missionaries of Charity (MoC) in Kolkata because staff members had allegedly been forcefully converting Hindus.
     
    #82027
    BobbyD likes this.
  8. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    To be fair……the BJP seem to hate anyone who isn’t Hindu, be it Christian, Muslim or Buddhist
     
    #82028
    Willhoops, Steelmonkey and kiwiqpr like this.
  9. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Yes, I'm sure that's true. Not a good look for India
     
    #82029
  10. Frome-Ranger

    Frome-Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    4,959
    The full clip is even worse, he asks him what his plans are this weekend and the guy says he's "just hoping to get through Christmas and hoping St Mungo's can help him with temporary accommodation so he's not on the street"
    The lack of empathy and awareness is frankly stunning.
     
    #82030

  11. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    69,857
    Likes Received:
    57,373
    This would be a classic Alan Partridge episode.
     
    #82031
  12. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    Surely that’s been taken out of context ? No one can be THAT devoid of empathy or THAT ****ing stupid…….oh wait :emoticon-0120-doh:
     
    #82032
  13. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    5,631
    Sorry to hear you've been unwell. Hope you're feeling better, especially for tomorrow.

    Fully agree on your points on the NHS. It needs some fairly major surgery, but the NIMBY crowd massively hold it back in my opinion.
     
    #82033
    rangercol likes this.
  14. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    25,349
    Likes Received:
    48,539
  15. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    Genuine question raving……how do you Devine the NIMBY crowd…and how do you feel they are holding it back ?
     
    #82035
    sb_73 likes this.
  16. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    5,631
    If we were designing a health system from a blank sheet of paper we'd have far fewer hospitals, and they'd be bigger, with all associated specialisms under one roof. Not this crazy system where we have different specialisms in different hospitals in NW London - which simply doesn't work in an increasingly multi-morbid world.

    Centralisation of stroke services is a great example of the type of change I'm talking about. In London we moved from having 30 stroke services to 8 - which saves a lot of lives and money each year. Further reading: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...8QFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ntTtBLpDR1iWV49Gj68Ke

    The problem is that these changes are always highly controversial. The stroke services were before the happened, with locals angry about losing 'their' stroke service. Same happens with A&Es or maternity units that all the data (and no doubt your professional experience) would say ought to be shut down, with that resource spent expanding capacity in fewer better services.

    I could go on, but won't bore you. I'm sure it's an argument you've heard before.
     
    #82036
    kiwiqpr, BobbyD and Staines R's like this.
  17. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    The thing is though is that we aren’t starting from a blank piece of paper…..and the hospital infrastructure is there from the 50’s/60’s/70’s….it just seems to me, successive governments talk a lot of building new hospitals but not many actually come to fruition, however many services at the old hospitals still keep on closing.
    I genuinely haven’t heard of any new hospitals being built or proposed and people shouting “NIMBY”…..however I might be wrong…but surely if that did happen then that must be a minority ?
    My personal point of view is that the “specialised” system that we use in London works very well in a emergency setting…..with MTCs/HACs/HASUs etc exactly where we know they are, and if we need them, the specialised team are on call….I’m not so sure that would work if every hospital had the whole lot as we struggle for staff anyhow.
     
    #82037
  18. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    I've never met anyone that doesn't at some time have Nimby characteristics, though some might not admit it.

    "Excuse me, sir, that field behind your house with the mature oaks and beeches where locals take their dogs for a walk and children play? We're going to fit a large estate of densely configured houses there with plastic lawns that are easy to hose clean. All the houses will have at least 2 cars and in the summer, new residents will open their windows and share their music with you at full volume."

    "Oh, wonderful."

    "Yes, you may have to travel 10 miles to find a school for your kid, GP appointments must be made 2 months in advance and there's no chance of finding an NHS dentist because of the competition from other patients. Bring a sleeping bag and cooking facilities if you need to go to A & E."

    "Marvellous, can't wait."

    Fantasy at Christmas.
     
    #82038
    Quite Possibly Raving and BobbyD like this.
  19. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,601
    Likes Received:
    24,008
    Bah, Humbug!
     
    #82039
    Goldhawk-Road likes this.
  20. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Yes, probably
     
    #82040

Share This Page