It's on the bottom of the chart, Goldie - Yougov 16.01.17, 74% of Leave voters favour 'hard' Brexit. However you cut it, it's a minority - only 38.5% of those who voted.
I don't mean this to sound like I'm having a go as I've not read into it yet but GDP can be quite a misleading measure but it's reported because it's easy enough to calculate and people get what it means. I'd be interested to know what Real GDP growth is or, even better, Real GDP per Capita.
This is growth and growth is good. We should all be pleased with this. Since last week I think the Euro has gone up 3 cents which is also a good thing. It's a shame that Sky is not pushing this as a the main headline. maybe if the growth had fallen they would be all over it. I guess they are too busy bashing Trump.
It depends how the pollster's asked the question. If it was - would you like to leave the EU completely but have all the benefits of the Single market? I'm sure most would say yes. If it was, would you like to leave but stay in the Single Market and thus - have no control over borders or the amount of EU immigration into the UK - pay large, possibly punitive, sums for the privilege - have to submit to the European Court of Justice - have no say whatever in the making of the EU laws that will apply and - be forbidden from doing trade deals with other countries? - then I can't see many signing up to that.
All these kinds of comments/examples etc just come across as sour grapes strolls. The vote to leave the EU was the biggest mandate in our history. For as long as I can remember, governments have shyed away from having the referendum because every poll showed that the British people would vote to leave. Ordinary people in this country have always been uneasy with the ever increasing political integration with Europe. It's the political elite, left wingers and the majority of well off people who wanted to stay in. We're leaving and you and the odious Tim Farron need to get used to the idea.
Why do you not complete the question? If it was would you like to leave the EU completely and have none of the benefits of the Single market? Of course it might mean that the electorate would either need to be told of the benefits of being in the Single market or vote in ignorance.
But we would have access to the Single Market, just not be a member of it. In the forthcoming negotiations, the EU will insist that when we sell into the Single Market, we comply with product regulations, and financial services would have to comply with relevant regulations etc All this is relatively simple for the UK, which has been a member and has complied until now. No great changes will have to be made. A deal will be struck with the EU. How beneficial to the UK depends, it seems to me, on how damaging to EU member firms the introduction of tariffs is to their exports to the UK and also the need of EU industry to have unencumbered access to finance in the City of London. A number of EU member states are in a parlous state re their economies (Italy, Spain, Greece etc), so the idea that they will be prepared to damage their economies further just because civil servants in Brussels feel the need to punish the UK is simply counter intuitive. Add to that the need for British Defence capabilities in the face of an increasing threat from Russia and the possibility that without a deal, the UK might drop its corporation tax to Ireland levels to encourage investment, and it's clear the EU has a lot to lose if no deal is struck. Pragmatism will prevail, and this is the noise coming from Angela Merkel.
I am now finding this thread hard. I have said I voted Brexit because of too much EU interference. If the vote had gone the other way I would have accepted it and moved on. I did when that Muppet Blair got in and I will if Comrade Corbyn gets in. That's what we do in a democracy. Sadly Brexit has caused a few divisions and upsets and rational people seem to want the other side to fail. When positive news comes in we should welcome it but we seem to get the same lot moaning about it or dismissing or saying "yes, but". Today's growth is good news and should be welcomed. Last week the Euro was at €1.13 and today it hit €1.18. This is good news for holidaymakers and others that rely on the strong pound. Get off your high horses accept it and support your country instead of knocking it all the time.
Agree with all of that. Now answer my question. As you said to Stroller it all turns on what the question the pollster asks. We can all ask leading questions to generate the answer we want. Are you not guilty of doing exactly what you suggested might happen to Stroller.
An equally apt comment for either of the crying babies might well be "I cannot accept a contrary point of view". That applies on both sides to an extent. I really think it is time you made clear who on this Forum you think is trying to undermine the will of the people. If you include me in that group, I'd like to know why.
If by that statement you mean that you would have simply shut up and taken a vow of silence, I don't believe you. You would have done what I and many others have done by expressing my opinions that the decision was a mistake, explaining why I disagree with it and what I make of subsequent developments. That is after all the purpose of a Politics Thread on a debating forum. Accepting decisions in a democracy does not mean that you have to change your mind or forever hold your tongue. Or perhaps you think it does?
Your question turned on this - what if the pollsters asked "would you like to leave the EU completely and have none of the benefits of the Single market?" My answer in #8129 above, is that the question is based on a false premise. If we leave the EU - hard Brexit, we will have the benefit of access to the Single Market, but not the benefit of membership of the Single Market. So, to get a worthwhile answer, pollsters would have to explain to those polled the difference between access and membership, the positives and the negatives. The detail is critical but pollsters haven't the time or the inclination to get into it, which is why Stroller's pie charts are meaningless in my view.
Forget the pie charts. It's plain that the 'will of the people' - to coin a phrase - is to stay in the Single Market, yet our unelected Prime Minister is hell-bent on taking us out. Democracy?
How is it clear that the will of the people is to stay in the single market? When I voted out I knew that meant we would have to leave membership of the single market to regain control of our borders. Everyone I've heard interviewed who voted out has said the same.
I thought it was all about sovereignty for you Col, not immigration? No matter, the point - which I continue to make, to the annoyance of many - is that not all Leave voters wanted to exit the Single Market (only 74% according to the Yougov poll), which means that the government doesn't have a mandate (there's that word again Ellers) for 'hard Brexit'. The 'will of the people' is being denied.
