Off Topic The Politics Thread

Why do you think she won?

 

I didn't say you did.

 

Ah right, so would you agree that what her and kwarteng have just done last Friday was wrong or do you think it was correct?

 

Yep, probably.

 

Goldie is an extreme right winger in my opinion. You're just an apologist for them, Col.

 

I think it was wrong, but I don't think it's a straightforward problem.

 

Right, so when people have a moan about the situation, what gets you annoyed when you partly agree with them?
It isn't a straight forward problem, it never needed to be a problem in the first place.

 

And you're an apologist for left wing, own country haters like Corbyn and McDonnell, who support anyone, usually terrorists, who hate this country.

I'm no where near extreme in any views, but that doesn't fit your pathetic attempts to label people.

 

She got 26% of the vote, less than Labour at the last U.K. election.

She got this because the votes for other flaky parties, including 5 Star and the Lega, collapsed. Italian politics is incredibly febrile and changeable. Meloni made promises like any other populist which appeal to people who are scared and looking for people to blame for their lot. Immigrants, the EU and LGBT top of her list, but the Fratelli are distinguished from other right leaning anti immigrant parties like the Lega by this emphasis on God, Family, Country and a willingness to attack elements of capitalism, like financial markets and consumerism. I don’t really care whether they formally meet some definition of ‘fascist’ but they are materially different from hard right Tories.

In my opinion.

 

You make my point for me. Hitler turned his democratically elected position as Chancellor into a dictatorship by removing all political opposition. Has Trump done that? Has Meloni? And a political party may have a fascist history, but that does not make its politicians decades later fascists, any more than Sinn Fein IRA is still an armed terrorist organisation

 

Read what I said, 'you moron'.

 

Of course it was always going to be problem, following the Russian invasion, Brexit upheaval and a bloody pandemic, followed by the fuel emergency.
I just don't blame the Tories for everything, lots and lots, but not everything.

 

Handing a tax cut to favour the rich, resulting in the pound crashing and consequently the markets crashing was the result of the things you name above.
I'm really surprised Col that you think like that. This was a government self inflicted crisis, through incompetence, hence me saying she's a fukwit. This is one thing you should %100 be blaming the Tories for!

 

Trump failed, Meloni has only just got into government, Hitler was first Chancellor in January 1933, he didn’t do away with serious opposition until 1934. Mussolini was, I think, a bit quicker but I haven’t researched it.

As I said above, I’m not bothered by bookish definitions of fascism, but the Fratelli are different from hard right ‘patriotic’ Tory type parties in my opinion and from what my Italian friends tell me.

 

**** me, honestly do people think that covid or putin forced Lizzie ****ing thatcher to line the pockets of the already rich!?!

 

Hitler became chancellor in 1933. I think we're agreed neither Trump or Meloni are neo fascists. They probably are more extreme than UK right wing Tories.

 

Just waiting for someone to tell me its Meghan Markles fault next!

 

That top rate tax didn't take much. £2 bn I believe. I agree it was a mistake to abolish it though. Optics are terrible. Truss needs to shape up or ship out.

 

And you're an apologist for left wing, own country haters like Corbyn and McDonnell, who support anyone, usually terrorists, who hate this country.

Labels, eh?

 

Come on Col, Brexit, pandemic, Ukraine, fuel are the same for all, (except perhaps Brexit) and have lead to a genuinely horrible situation for most countries. What has happened between last Friday and now is unique to the U.K. and entirely self inflicted and avoidable.

They could have done the important thing, the fuel cost help which I support, and left the rest for a proper, costed budget which wouldn’t have spooked the markets (and I really resent having to set policy according to ‘market confidence’ but you would have thought an ex hedge fund manager chancellor would have got it). Nobody would have blamed them would they? But ideology drove them into a reckless move which is genuinely harmful. I am properly angry about this which is why I bang on about it. Sorry. Regardless of whether I like them or not (I don’t) I can’t see how this, and their lukewarm defence of themselves, can be justified. And by comments from Tory MPs and future voting intentions of previous Tory voters, it’s not just political opponents who are stunned by this stupidity and it’s consequences. I’m lucky that I no longer have a mortgage, but if my fixed rate was about to end and I faced a doubling in payments I’d find it hard to forgive.