Christ is this thread still allowed to run? The politics thread needs to end.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Margot Cleveland
@ProfMJCleveland
·
Jun 15
Joe Biden says he can’t remember a time when the American economy was stronger than it is today and I, for one, completely believe him.
shhh
you dont have to look at it
I rarely do, but it's so divisive.
Where's stainsey
Driving his ambulance to Severodonetsk?
Brilliantly the odious Nigel Farage has reignited his campaign to destroy the Tory party because Johnson didn’t give him a peerage and he’s still outside the establishment, the one thing he desperately wants to be in.
Quote
“Left wing lawyers now dictate our immigration policy. Time to leave the ECHR and complete Brexit”
This is both disingenuous and brilliant. Farage is not stupid, he knows full well that the ECHR has nothing at all to do with the EU or Brexit. He also knows that it is virtually impossible for the U.K. to leave the ECHR it is baked into so much law, including the very delicate devolution legislation and the Good Friday Agreement. He also knows that there is zero chance of the Commons, let alone the Lords, voting in favour of leaving.
On the other hand he is well aware that this rhetoric will appeal massively to the swivel eyed bigots (in my opinion) of the ERG and their fans in the ‘country’, who are already getting uppity again because La Manche isn’t wide enough for them. Cue Tory civil war. Yay!
But Labour.
Quote
“Left wing lawyers now dictate our immigration policy. Time to leave the ECHR and complete Brexit”
This is both disingenuous and brilliant. Farage is not stupid, he knows full well that the ECHR has nothing at all to do with the EU or Brexit. He also knows that it is virtually impossible for the U.K. to leave the ECHR it is baked into so much law, including the very delicate devolution legislation and the Good Friday Agreement. He also knows that there is zero chance of the Commons, let alone the Lords, voting in favour of leaving.
On the other hand he is well aware that this rhetoric will appeal massively to the swivel eyed bigots (in my opinion) of the ERG and their fans in the ‘country’, who are already getting uppity again because La Manche isn’t wide enough for them. Cue Tory civil war. Yay!
But Labour.
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It's European, though.
Throw in talk of lefty lawyers and it's enough to get many frothing at the mouth.
Don't know what you mean by 'country'. And I wouldn't want to get close enough to see if they are swivel eyed. But one thing is for sure. It helps them to see things that the rest of us can't. A lady who posts on our neighbourhood web site swore blind the other week that all the 'illegals' on the incoming dinghies had the latest i-phones and chucked them over the side when they spotted a naval patrol vessel approaching -firstly to dispose of any evidence of their identity as well as ensuring that HMG would buy them the latest models as soon as they had landed. Upgrade your phone. Hop on a dinghy.
She claimed she was well informed and shut down any dissent by telling the dissenters that they were biased and got their news from those biased against the true voices of England which had been silenced for too long. I refrained but she hasn't posted since then so perhaps the Forum's mods have shut her down. Now I know where Beth gets it from. And she used to be such a lovely cuddly lady (so I'm told) before the power got to her.
While not wishing to interfere with your moans about swivel eyed bigots, you're confusing law and enforcement tribunal. It is perfectly possible to include all the European Convention human rights into a UK Bill of Rights, but make the uppermost enforcing body the UK Supreme Court.
Here’s what I was using as a reference, but there are many similar articles written by constitutional lawyers available:
https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/opinions/human-rights-act-repeal-and-devolution-0
[The Human Rights Act/HRA is the 1998 U.K. legislation which defines our relationship with the ECHR]
Last paragraph:
“So, to summarise, repeal of the Human Rights Act would require the consent of the devolved legislatures and the Republic of Ireland. Even if such consent was forthcoming, moving away from the Human Rights Act could be considered a breach of the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement by the ‘people of the island of Ireland, North and South’, who formally ratified the Agreement with its explicit commitment to the Human Rights Act mechanism, in a referendum, and could be similarly so seen by all those who voted for devolution in Scotland and Wales, who view rights as part of their common and devolved constitutional framework. Paradoxically, repeal of the Human Rights Act would also dismantle one of the increasingly few value-driven components of the Union that currently act as its fast-eroding glue.”
The trade agreement we have with the EU would also be breached, as it references the ECHR as the mechanism to ensure all partners do actually respect human rights.
Do you actually think it’s going to happen? Or are the ‘consequences’ of the European Court’s intervention that you mentioned something different?
Here’s what I was using as a reference, but there are many similar articles written by constitutional lawyers availableo
https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/opinions/human-rights-act-repeal-and-devolution-0
[The Human Rights Act/HRA is the 1998 U.K. legislation which defines our relationship with the ECHR]
Last paragraph:
“So, to summarise, repeal of the Human Rights Act would require the consent of the devolved legislatures and the Republic of Ireland. Even if such consent was forthcoming, moving away from the Human Rights Act could be considered a breach of the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement by the ‘people of the island of Ireland, North and South’, who formally ratified the Agreement with its explicit commitment to the Human Rights Act mechanism, in a referendum, and could be similarly so seen by all those who voted for devolution in Scotland and Wales, who view rights as part of their common and devolved constitutional framework. Paradoxically, repeal of the Human Rights Act would also dismantle one of the increasingly few value-driven components of the Union that currently act as its fast-eroding glue.”
The trade agreement we have with the EU would also be breached, as it references the ECHR as the mechanism to ensure all partners do actually respect human rights.
Do you actually think it’s going to happen? Or are the ‘consequences’ of the European Court’s intervention that you mentioned something different?
There seem to be two options.
1. Simply ignore those ECHR (the court not the convention) judgements that conflict with rulings by the Supreme Court. I understand this is the approach Germany takes. It does not accept that any judgement can overturn those of their highest national court.
2. Roll the current UK Human Rights Act into a new Bill of Rights the Tories have been discussing for some time. Ancillary agreements, domestic and international, would have to be amended or repealed. I don't know enough about the EU trade agreements to know how fundamental submission to the ECHR are to operation of those agreements.
1. is most likely in the short term.