Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Labour would obviously do better. Even if we lived in a one party state, your argument of “it’s **** but it’s all we have” wouldn’t be a great endorsement. They’ve had 11 years.

Labour are ####. The party is split (even at the top). They have done more U-turns than my mrs. It's okay being in opposition saying what they could do better but they would be a disaster. That's why Starmer is known as Captain Hindsight. Always has the answer after the fact.

They would have messed up the vaccine roll out... Actually they wanted to sign up to the EU thing (that failed). God forbid if Corbyn was in overseeing the pandemic. Even Starmer wouldn't say he would have done a better job than Johnson.

Never trust them with the economy. Blimey I recently read an article on how they thought the economy should be run only for the writer of the article to call it fantasy.

The deputy calling the other party ‘scum’.Would any decent person want her to represent the country? MPs threatening to throw acid in peoples faces (nice).

Don't get me started on individuals and their ridiculous comments. What happened to that idiot Ashworth ‘less’? What did I say months ago about him and Dodds and the rest of the droids? I was correct in that they were crap.

Labour Mayor of London... Nothing needs to be said.

No Labour wouldn't do a better job. In fact I will agree with a political pundit who said “thank God they were not in power during the pandemic”.

Tories have made mistakes ( I agree) but as Goldie said recently, they sorted the economy and roll-out.

When it comes to it people will see the alternative and they will get back in.
Starmer will never be PM and will be gone only to be replaced by another uncharismatic North London MP.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Starmer's judgement call over Brexit - supporting a People's vote - was woeful. He completely misread the mood of the country. He has the political antennae of a lemming, zero charisma, was only an average lawyer and his deputy's idea of diplomacy is to shout "scum" at the other side. In order to win an election and succeed (for a while) thereafter, he would need the status of Blair in 1997 and the quality of Blair's shadow cabinet to match. Starmer is a long way from that.

Maybe just doing what people (white blokes over 50) want is a **** way of leading an entire country. I’m not saying I think he’s likely to win but I do think he has many of the qualities of a strong and capable PM. Our standards currently are so pitifully low.

What would you consider to be a good legal career if his was average?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Raab is hopeless, no doubt.
However, it's a bit of a stretch to blame the failure to get everyone out all on the pen pushers.
It would have been hellishly difficult to get individuals (harder still entire families) from wherever they were hiding and into the airport.
There were many, many failed attempts by very brave security people and SF.
There were also 15k brought out.
Nothing is black and white.

There is one major cause of all the chaos on the Afghanistan surrender, and that is Biden. By cutting and running in the manner he did, he shat on the US's allies and the Afghan people, particularly young women. It will take a long time for America's international reputation to recover.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Maybe just doing what people (white blokes over 50) want is a **** way of leading an entire country. I’m not saying I think he’s likely to win but I do think he has many of the qualities of a strong and capable PM. Our standards currently are so pitifully low.

What would you consider to be a good legal career if his was average?

First, it was not just older white blokes that voted for Brexit, and you're misleading yourself if you think it was. Do you really think that Johnson won his 80 odd seats on a "Get Brexit Done" ticket because just older white blokes voted for him?

Starmer was a human rights lawyer who had political affiliations. He was appointed DPP by the Labour Government at the time. A good legal career would be a top commercial QC or a partner in one of the Magic Circle of City firms, none of whom rely on political help to boost their careers.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

First, it was not just older white blokes that voted for Brexit, and you're misleading yourself if you think it was. Do you really think that Johnson won his 80 odd seats on a "Get Brexit Done" ticket because just older white blokes voted for him?

Starmer was a human rights lawyer who had political affiliations. He was appointed DPP by the Labour Government at the time. A good legal career would be a top commercial QC or a partner in one of the Magic Circle of City firms, none of whom rely on political help to boost their careers.

It is predominantly old white blokes who cry about democracy when someone dares suggest a bit more democracy. Perhaps the last five years has proved Starmer right.

Everyone knows Brexit is a **** idea, really. Some don’t care and want it anyway and some won’t admit it to themselves but we long stopped being a serious country and Brexit was the catalyst for that.

 

[sb_73]

Raab is hopeless, no doubt.
However, it's a bit of a stretch to blame the failure to get everyone out all on the pen pushers.
It would have been hellishly difficult to get individuals (harder still entire families) from wherever they were hiding and into the airport.
There were many, many failed attempts by very brave security people and SF.
There were also 15k brought out.
Nothing is black and white.

I agree with your points of course, especially that it was the work of people on the ground that got afghans on flights, but have you read the story Col? It’s about the culture of the FO under Raab and whoever the permanent secretary is/was. People were clocking off rather than trying to process cases to see whether they should get on a flight, and the example was set by senior leadership. We know that the ambassador in Kabul tried to leave and was told to stay. Raab was on holiday. Might have cost lives, might not, but poor crisis management.

It’s not even about politics, it’s about management.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

It is predominantly old white blokes who cry about democracy when someone dares suggest a bit more democracy. Perhaps the last five years has proved Starmer right.

Everyone knows Brexit is a **** idea, really. Some don’t care and want it anyway and some won’t admit it to themselves but we long stopped being a serious country and Brexit was the catalyst for that.

Sometimes, I feel you live in a vacuum chatting with your Remainer mates

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Sometimes, I feel you live in a vacuum chatting with your Remainer mates

Just let me know when the Brexit wins start rolling in.

 

[ELLERS]

Sometimes, I feel you live in a vacuum chatting with your Remainer mates

Sadly Watford will just disagree for the sake of it. Once again you have given a comprehesive answer which he has waved.
Once Watfird understands that many people who voted for Brexit and the Tories are not some thick knuckle dragger with a St Georges cross tattoo, he may start working things out.
As for be if it's of Brexit... He has missed the most important one... The economic growth.

 

[ELLERS]

There is one major cause of all the chaos on the Afghanistan surrender, and that is Biden. By cutting and running in the manner he did, he shat on the US's allies and the Afghan people, particularly young women. It will take a long time for America's international reputation to recover.

When this story broke today I expected all the usual mob to start knocking Raab.
Once Biden gave the order to get out the most important thing was lost which was the US air base and air support. The Taliban would never have moved if that was operational.... They have even said that!
If anyone is to blame it falls at the feet of sleepy Joe.
A soldier is on the news now saying that “our government were overwhelmed and swamped with 150k applications and needed to be security screened. The damaged was done before this”(Biden). He also thinks the press is being unfair to the government.
I'm sure for a few its all the fault of Raab and the Tories.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

When this story broke today I expected all the usual mob to start knocking Raab.
Once Biden gave the order to get out the most important thing was lost which was the US air base and air support. The Taliban would never have moved if that was operational.... They have even said that!
If anyone is to blame it falls at the feet of sleepy Joe.
A soldier is on the news now saying that “our government were overwhelmed and swamped with 150k applications and needed to be security screened. The damaged was done before this”(Biden). He also thinks the press is being unfair to the government.
I'm sure for a few its all the fault of Raab and the Tories.

As with everything you’ve gone off on a long rant about nothing. Nobody is saying it’s all the fault of Raab, who the Toriest of Tories admit is useless, or the government but the whistleblower’s claims are pretty damning. Given this government’s track record they are credible, IMO.

 

[ELLERS]

When this story broke today I expected all the usual mob to start knocking Raab.
Once Biden gave the order to get out the most important thing was lost which was the US air base and air support. The Taliban would never have moved if that was operational.... They have even said that!
If anyone is to blame it falls at the feet of sleepy Joe.
A soldier is on the news now saying that “our government were overwhelmed and swamped with 150k applications and needed to be security screened. The damaged was done before this”(Biden). He also thinks the press is being unfair to the government.
I'm sure for a few its all the fault of Raab and the Tories.

And as a side note to my post the Military fella just confirmed what I said that as soon as the US air support went, they had no chance.

 

[ELLERS]

As with everything you’ve gone off on a long rant about nothing. Nobody is saying it’s all the fault of Raab, who the Toriest of Tories admit is useless, or the government but the whistleblower’s claims are pretty damning. Given this government’s track record they are credible, IMO.

There always seems to be whistleblower?
There always seems to be stories that come out a year later... Like a drip to continually undermine the government. People see through this left wing agenda.
Raab has his own catalogue of errors to worry about but I wouldn't blame him for Afghanistan. That was Bidens cock up.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

There always seems to be whistleblower?
There always seems to be stories that come out a year later... Like a drip to continually undermine the government. People see through this left wing agenda.
Raab has his own catalogue of errors to worry about but I wouldn't blame him for Afghanistan. That was Bidens cock up.

If they could just stop being so inept and corrupt there wouldn’t be whistles to blow.

 

[ELLERS]

If they could just stop being so inept and corrupt there wouldn’t be whistles to blow.

TBH most of these stories and leaks are strategically timed.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

TBH most of these stories and leaks are strategically timed.

The Tories have enough **** on each other to leak a story per day if it suited them. It’s just one dead cat after another which would have finished off ministers not long ago but now stupid ****s circle the wagons and shout about lefties and wokes until the next one comes along.

 

[rangercol]

I agree with your points of course, especially that it was the work of people on the ground that got afghans on flights, but have you read the story Col? It’s about the culture of the FO under Raab and whoever the permanent secretary is/was. People were clocking off rather than trying to process cases to see whether they should get on a flight, and the example was set by senior leadership. We know that the ambassador in Kabul tried to leave and was told to stay. Raab was on holiday. Might have cost lives, might not, but poor crisis management.

It’s not even about politics, it’s about management.

I hadn't read that particular version, but know of the general premise.
I agree that there is definitely a share of culpability among the mandarins. However, civil servants regularly throw the Tories under the bus, no more so than during brexit.
I suspect there are many contributing factors, with Biden high on the list.
Raab was/is inept I agree along with the criticism of pen pushers.
Unfortunately, it all tends to turn into "they're Tories, they're evil etc etc" imo.
Put Lammy in the same position and I hate to think what may have happened.

 

[rangercol]

There always seems to be whistleblower?
There always seems to be stories that come out a year later... Like a drip to continually undermine the government. People see through this left wing agenda.
Raab has his own catalogue of errors to worry about but I wouldn't blame him for Afghanistan. That was Bidens cock up.

I definitely think he shares some of the blame for the attitudes within the foreign office, not what allowed the Taliban to take over.

 

[Stroller]

TBH most of these stories and leaks are strategically timed.

It's not 'strategically timed' and the civil servant involved isn't a 'whistle-blower', he was giving evidence to a parliamentarry select committee.

 

[bobmid]

How can anyone have a go at poor Raab, the bloke was sunning himself up on his holidays