Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

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    Votes: 56 47.9%

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Geoffrey Cox making money on rent for a gaffe he has in London while claiming £22k of expenses for another London flat which presumably he wasn’t making much use of while working as a Devon MP from the Caribbean.

But Labour.
 
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Britain Elects
@BritainElects
· 3h
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 38% (+2)
CON: 36% (-1)
LDEM: 10% (-)
GRN: 6% (-)
via @RedfieldWilton,
10 Nov
Chgs. w/ 08 Nov
 
bobmid said:
Just waiting for some big news story to come to take the heat of the current scandal. Im sure one will be in the pipeline
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Row over 'drunk' MPs on Gibraltar military visit
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55 minutes ago
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IMAGE SOURCE,DAVID LINDEN
Image caption,
SNP MP David Linden posted a picture on Twitter of MPs visiting troops in Gibraltar
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has written to Labour and the SNP after three of their MPs were accused of getting drunk on a flight to Gibraltar.

The BBC understands that officials complained about the behaviour of the SNP's Drew Hendry and David Linden and Labour's Charlotte Nichols.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon called the claims about the SNP MPs "false", but Labour has yet to comment.

The Tories rejected reports two of their own MPs drank heavily later.

A party source told the BBC the accusations some Conservatives had turned up to subsequent events with a hangover were "quite clearly a desperate attempt by those involved in the flight incident to deflect attention away from their behaviour".

The MPs were in a group of 15 taking part in the trip to Gibraltar.


Coinciding with Armistice Day, it was organised as part of the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme. set up to give politicians an insight into military life so they can "make a more informed and useful contribution to defence debates".

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IMAGE SOURCE,UK PARLIAMENT
Image caption,
SNP MPs Drew Hendry and David Linden have rejected claims they drank heavily on the trip
Several witnesses said the three MPs had been inebriated when the plane touched down at Gibraltar.

One witness claimed they had been drinking before departure from Heathrow and had drunk heavily on the flight.

Two military chaperones who were accompanying the group of MPs on the flight were so concerned by their behaviour they reported it to the Ministry of Defence in London, the BBC understands.

The claims of drunkenness were first reported by the Times and Sun newspapers.

Mr Hendry and Mr Linden are said to have become argumentative when officials queried their Covid documents.


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IMAGE SOURCE,UK PARLIAMENT
Image caption,
Charlotte Nichols is said to have suffered a mental health episode
And Ms Nichols returned to the UK early after what has been described as a "mental health episode".

It is understood the MP for Warrington North has post-traumatic stress disorder and is on medication.

Mr Wallace's letter has been sent to Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer, SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford, House of Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle and Tory MP James Gray, who chairs the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme.

The defence secretary said the scheme provided "an opportunity for both parliamentarians and the military to understand each other.

"This behaviour puts military personnel in a difficult position and risks undermining respect for Parliament," Mr Wallace added.

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IMAGE SOURCE,POLA DAMONTE VIA GETTY IMAGES
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The Army has had a presence in Gibraltar for more than three centuries
But Ms Sturgeon rejected the claims against Mr Hendry and Mr Linden as "completely unfounded and false", describing them as a "disgraceful attempt" to divert attention from sleaze allegations against Conservative MPs.


"I know both Drew and David extremely well and if they say these allegations are false I have confidence in that," she added.

Glasgow East MP Mr Linden said he was "incredibly disappointed" by the "bizarre Tory smear campaign".

Mr Hendry, MP for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, accused Conservatives of making "false claims", saying: "That is a matter for their conscience. I'll focus on doing my job and respecting our troops as we mark Armistice Day."

A Government of Gibraltar spokesperson said there had been "no reports of shouting or any sort of aggressive behaviour" at the airport.

The Army has had a presence in Gibraltar, a British Overseas Territory with a population of 30,000, for more than 300 years.
 
sb_73 said:
What point do you want to make with this? A party political one? There are equally repulsive messages sent to Tory MPs. Anne Trevelyan had someone threaten to burn down her house with her kids in it.
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Yes, that’s the point that there are horrific people out there, the people responsible for both should be locked up. Whilst in this case it was an email, there does seem to be less pressure on the social media companies, can’t see they’ve done sod all.
 
Willhoops said:
Yes, that’s the point that there are horrific people out there, the people responsible for both should be locked up. Whilst in this case it was an email, there does seem to be less pressure on the social media companies, can’t see they’ve done sod all.
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I’d like the social media companies to take more responsibility, but ultimately it’s the individuals who post this crap who have to take accountability for their actions. Mark Zuckerberg hardly created these people did he (though he is monetising them)? You don’t blame a pen and paper for what you use them to write do you? Perhaps the simplest way forward would be to remove anonymity from all these platforms (including this one) so we can match a view to a person, rather than an account. If you are not prepared to say something to someone’s face, don’t post it anonymously is a pretty simple guideline.

Of course there is a certain irony that Sultana has been abused electronically, given that she is no stranger to using these platforms in similar ways (not anonymously though). She is MP for the next constituency up from me, Coventry South, but it it is highly doubtful that she will be after the next election. The politician most abused on social media is, of course, Diane Abbott. At one stage over 40% of all Twitter insults directed at British politicians were aimed at her. A tradition that was, at one stage, bravely upheld by a couple of posters on here. I don’t have much time for Abbott or Sultana, or Trevelyan for that matter, but no one deserves this kind of moronic and pathological treatment, which says more about the abusers than the abused.

I’m not sure whether this kind of behaviour is a symptom or a cause of the toxic public discourse we are lumbered with nowadays.
 
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sb_73 said:
I’d like the social media companies to take more responsibility, but ultimately it’s the individuals who post this crap who have to take accountability for their actions. Mark Zuckerberg hardly created these people did he (though he is monetising them)? You don’t blame a pen and paper for what you use them to write do you? Perhaps the simplest way forward would be to remove anonymity from all these platforms (including this one) so we can match a view to a person, rather than an account. If you are not prepared to say something to someone’s face, don’t post it anonymously is a pretty simple guideline.

Of course there is a certain irony that Sultana has been abused electronically, given that she is no stranger to using these platforms in similar ways (not anonymously though). She is MP for the next constituency up from me, Coventry South, but it it is highly doubtful that she will be after the next election. The politician most abused on social media is, of course, Diane Abbott. At one stage over 40% of all Twitter insults directed at British politicians were aimed at her. A tradition that was, at one stage, bravely upheld by a couple of posters on here. I don’t have much time for Abbott or Sultana, or Trevelyan for that matter, but no one deserves this kind of moronic and pathological treatment, which says more about the abusers than the abused.

I’m not sure whether this kind of behaviour is a symptom or a cause of the toxic public discourse we are lumbered with nowadays.
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Great post
 
Willhoops said:
Goldie have I jumped down your or anyone else’s throat? I don’t think so, that’s an assumption bit like schools getting their students to wear skirts, I thought from reading a story about that, the students were the ones wanting to do that. With regards to other LGBTQ issues at school as far as I can see all it is just acknowledging there are many different types who don’t fit the socially created ‘norms’ which have changed throughout history, and saying that’s fine and to be respectful. Yet if you see what certain elements of the media and what’s all over social media, a totally different narrative is pushed in what seems to be an effort to demonise the community and the groups.

I’ve had many dealings with Stonewall and I don’t see that and believe it’s somewhat again media fabrication based on any incidents that get blown out of proportion and a false narrative created. I do recognise that Stonewall certainly has some issues, they have got certain statements very wrong, especially in regards to trans issues. I see they are a little disorganised, however my biggest issue with them is their top 100 LGBTQ friendly companies, and how you can rise in that. Usually by paying them for courses.

Anyway.. the point is people need to be more weary of anti lgbtq stories, as there are clearly nothing out of bounds for those looking to paint the community in a bad light. You’d also have to question why people are wanting others to see them as an enemy.
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Sorry for the delay in responding, Will. First, I don't buy the "it was the students idea" claim, since the school asked all boys to wear skirts. If one or two students had asked, they could individually have been granted permission to wear female clothing. This was definitely a school move.

Second, the vast bulk of the population and all the main media bought into "gay rights" long, long ago. At a time when an unknown musician called Elton John was singing about Your song. Of course, there will be some homophobes like there are some burglars, some shoplifters and some psychopaths. Prosecution is the way to deal with them when they break the law.

The trans right issue is a newer one, but the militant way the Gay/trans lobbyists are going about forcing the changes that they believe should be made to society, are no more acceptable to most people than the idiots that are protesting on the lanes of the M25. The cancel culture, the death threats against Kathleen Stock and the balaclava wearing students that wanted her sacked were chilling. There is a Puritan-like intolerance by these people that will not help their cause. It means that rather than warming to trans people, the public are being alienated. Counterproductive.

Stonewall - thank you for recognising that it sometimes gets stuff wrong. It's interesting that the BBC has just stopped contracting with and taking advice from Stonewall. They are an aggressive pressure group that is hell bent in shaping all of society in the image of its own members in my view. They are not averse to using a form of mild blackmail to do it, putting pressure on businesses to bend to their will. You allude to that. Stonewall insisted that the BBC remove references to "mother" from all its documents. Madness.

The trans community should not be seen as the enemy - but that's largely down to them - you win people over with love and education, not threats and intolerance.
 
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West WindsR said:
Do you really feel soaked by it 364 days a year?
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It's everywhere. The latest thing is to paint zebra crossings in rainbow colours. We have several around here. In Camden, the council ignored evidence that the safety of poorly sighted people could be compromised, and went ahead and painted over the black and white crossing, replacing it was "trans colours" whatever they are.

Kathleen Stock and Sussex University have been in the news for months. All about the trans issue. There are many other examples. JK Rowling could massive abuse for saying women are women, and trans women are trans women.

So, yes, it's at least a 364 day a year thing
 
Willhoops said:
Yes, that’s the point that there are horrific people out there, the people responsible for both should be locked up. Whilst in this case it was an email, there does seem to be less pressure on the social media companies, can’t see they’ve done sod all.
Click to expand...

Look forward to seeing your sympathetic post when the next Tory MP is badly abused on social media, Will
 
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sb_73 said:
I’d like the social media companies to take more responsibility, but ultimately it’s the individuals who post this crap who have to take accountability for their actions. Mark Zuckerberg hardly created these people did he (though he is monetising them)? You don’t blame a pen and paper for what you use them to write do you? Perhaps the simplest way forward would be to remove anonymity from all these platforms (including this one) so we can match a view to a person, rather than an account. If you are not prepared to say something to someone’s face, don’t post it anonymously is a pretty simple guideline.

Of course there is a certain irony that Sultana has been abused electronically, given that she is no stranger to using these platforms in similar ways (not anonymously though). She is MP for the next constituency up from me, Coventry South, but it it is highly doubtful that she will be after the next election. The politician most abused on social media is, of course, Diane Abbott. At one stage over 40% of all Twitter insults directed at British politicians were aimed at her. A tradition that was, at one stage, bravely upheld by a couple of posters on here. I don’t have much time for Abbott or Sultana, or Trevelyan for that matter, but no one deserves this kind of moronic and pathological treatment, which says more about the abusers than the abused.

I’m not sure whether this kind of behaviour is a symptom or a cause of the toxic public discourse we are lumbered with nowadays.
Click to expand...

Your post makes no distinction between (1) nasty abusive messages, possibly racist or misogynistic in nature, of the kind Sultana suffered, and (2) the mocking of inept politicians generally and each time they make a blunder.

So who were the posters on here that you were referring to, and did their posts fall into (1) or (2) above in your view?
 
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