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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Rightly so…..
     
    #65861
  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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  3. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Total ****ing fruitcake
     
    #65863
  4. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    who votes for these people
    please log in to view this image
     
    #65864
  5. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see you enjoyed it. That Yemen episode was superb - really opened my eyes on the issue.

    As for why we support engagement with Saudi, but have concerns about the Taliban reasserting control in Afghanistan - I think it's all about direction of travel.

    Saudi is far from a perfect country (where is?) but there are small signs of progress - significant women's rights reforms in 2019, migrant worker reforms in 2020 (important as the previous rules effectively enabled a form of domestic slavery), and more recently announced proposals around their criminal justice system (tbc on detail). They have a young population, and Crown Prince Mohamed bin Salman is seen as someone who wants to liberalise further. One could argue back that these changes are not broad enough or fast enough, but I think the broadly positive direction of travel (liberalisation, albeit not democratisation) is hard to argue against. From a realpolitik perspective, they are also the pivotal counter-balance in the region to Iran's influence and power.

    By contrast, the concern with the Taliban is that they are considerably more conservative than the Saudi regime, implementing the very harshest interpretation of Sharia law, and have never shown any interest in any form of 'liberalisation' (i.e. women's rights). They are far more repressive of their own population than the Saudi Govt (read this old article from the Chicago Tribune), and make a huge amount of their money from the trade of drugs and other humans. They also have a track record of violence against and the killing of aid workers and those from any other religion. Going back to this way of life for the people of Afghanistan, having had a form of democracy since 2004, can be seen as a really negative direction of travel.

    As for the perpetrators of 9/11 coming from Saudi - I that's a slight oversimplification. Let's not forget that Bin Laden himself was from Saudi, but was banished from Saudi in 1992, and integrated al-Qaeda and its army into the Taliban army after he was also kicked out of Sudan. So yes, Bin Laden and (some) of his followers were strictly speaking Saudi by birth, but were exiled from that country, and were welcomed into Afghanistan by the Taliban. There is a world of difference between 15 exiles from one country acting as their own militia, alongside other 'believers' from other nations, which is what we saw with 9/11, and the organised efforts of a government to repress its own people and routinely engage in abhorrent practices.

    I don't for one second pretend to support or defend all actions of the Saudi state, but I think the comparison with the Taliban is not one I would rush to make personally.

    Anyway, I've broken my promise not to post on this thread. I blame you Steels.

    Edit - sorry, one additional thought which comes to me after posting. I've just finished the excellent Jesse Norman book on Edmund Burke, which I recommend highly. Burke argues for cautious reform in any country, and that any change should stretch the social fabric of a nation, but not irreparably break that fabric. Reform not revolution. From a Burkean perspective, one could argue that the slow reform in Saudi is exactly that, a slow stretching of their social fabric into new territories. In other words, we can't expect it to happen all at once as that just doesn't work. Ironically, an attempt to force it to happen all at once in Afghanistan from 2001-2004 is a good example of this. That, however, is not an excuse for no change, which is what the Taliban stood/stands for.
     
    #65865
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
  6. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Government preparing to fund more medical and dentistry university places amid record applications for places and an assumption that lots of them will get the grades required when A level results come out.

    A good thing. But sadly those achieving these grades will always have a question mark against them. Last year the pass rate for A levels was 100%. Yes, 100%. Over 38% were awarded A or A* grades - compared to 25% in 2019. It’s assumed that this trend will continue with teachers awarding grades rather than public examination or independent work assessment being used. There has to be a question mark about the credibility of some of these results.

    Not a criticism of the teachers and certainly not of the kids, they have all had a completely **** experience over the last couple of years. But it’s one thing to ‘compensate’ them with an A* mark but another for them to then be on a degree course that they are not up to.

    This is a very difficult situation, caused of course by the pandemic. I have no bright ideas, the already rampant grade inflation, including at degree level where a First is now commonplace rather than a real exception and achievement, has been accelerated hugely, and it’s the recipients of these grades who will suffer for it. Pretty soon ‘good’ universities will start setting their own entrance exams because their applicants can’t be distinguished on the basis of A level results, they are all perfect. Let’s hope those of us at the other end of our careers can show some sympathy and support, these kids are going to struggle in the real world.
     
    #65866
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  7. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Steels sent me the link for the podcast and it looks really good (When I get the time).
    Do you think you need to listen to the whole lot in order or can you pick 1 or 2 off ?
     
    #65867
  8. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to listen to it all in order, but I think you'll want to. I'd recommend listening to the first one so you get the background on each presenter and then see if you want to listen sequentially or pick them off. In series one, Yemen, Syria and Iraq are the best episodes imo.
     
    #65868
    Staines R's and Steelmonkey like this.
  9. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Can you or steelsy send us a link or is it on the Beebs iPlayer which I can't access
     
    #65869
  10. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    #65870
    kiwiqpr likes this.

  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    This is what the Premier League is ordering players to kneel to in the coming season.
     
    #65871
  12. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    For ****'s sake!
     
    #65872
  13. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    The threat of the Taliban is that these men have a spiritual belief in what they are doing, confident that God is on their side and that women are on earth purely to please them.

    In contrast, the Afghan military work for a corrupt government and are often unpaid.
     
    #65873
  14. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find that its down to personal choice to kneel or not mate rather than being ordered by the Premier League.
     
    #65874
  15. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Lot of pressure. Brentford has been forced into a U turn to do it. Be interesting to see what the likes of Wilfred Zaha do, after he said taking the knee was degrading.
     
    #65875
  16. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    Each to their own but it sort of contradicts the whole thing if people are ordered to do it. Highly unlikely i reckon
     
    #65876
  17. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    It's pressurized virtue signaling. My respect will go to players that resist and show their abhorrence to racism in another way.
     
    #65877
  18. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    Think i've heard of this argument before

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58112621

    How can he be preaching to other countries about saving the environment whilst travelling by plane everywhere

    not just that, potentially spreading covid around everywhere
     
    #65878
    bobmid likes this.
  19. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    My respect goes to players who show their abhorrence to racism in any way they choose fit, even better if they explain why, which they have.
     
    #65879
  20. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    No, they're a bunch of status conscious, multi millionaires doing it in a herd
     
    #65880

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