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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter which Party these MP's are in they have a propensity to preach to their constituents and stick two fingers up at the same time. Vast majority are self-serving c*nts...
     
    #60341
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  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Nicola Sturgeon is accused of taking the EU's side and risking vaccine rollout as she vows to publish details of UK's supplies despite Boris Johnson ordering her to keep them secret - as Brussels claims AstraZeneca is giving Britain too much

    Nicola Sturgeon was accused of taking the EU's side in the bitter vaccine row today as she vowed to publish details of the UK's supplies despite Boris Johnson ordering her to keep them secret.

    In an extraordinary move, the First Minister risked undermining Britain's position, with Brussels heaping pressure on firms to give the bloc a bigger share of the stocks.

    Despite the PM warning that the information must be confidential to protect the rollout, Ms Sturgeon told Holyrood she will release it from next week 'regardless of what they say'.

    The timing of Ms Sturgeon's intervention was particularly provocative given that it came as Mr Johnson was on an official visit to Scotland to make the case for the Union.

    Tory MPs vented fury at Ms Sturgeon - who wants Scotland to be independent and rejoin the bloc - saying she is 'obviously more inclined to help the EU than she is the UK'.

    Tory MP Peter Bone told MailOnline: 'The simple truth is she has a tendency to support the EU rather than the United Kingdom.

    'It is wrong, her behaviour. I would have thought she would praise the success of the UK because Scotland shares in that. If she was in the EU and not part of the UK she would still be waiting for her vaccines. Get behind the UK government and stop playing petty politics.'

    The row erupted as tensions between Britain and Brussels over vaccine supplies escalated again as the EU warned drug companies it will use all legal means to block the export of jabs from the continent unless manufacturers deliver the shots they have promised.

    The EU's vaccination rollout continues to lag far behind the UK's, with the bloc now desperately scrambling to boost supplies - but deliveries have slowed due to production problems.

    Brussels has publicly slammed AstraZeneca for failing to deliver on its contract with the bloc and has even asked the firm to divert jabs from Britain.

    Now it has emerged that European Council President Charles Michel has said in a letter to four EU leaders that the EU should explore legal means to ensure it receives the jabs it has bought.

    'If no satisfactory solution can be found, I believe we should explore all options and make use of all legal means and enforcement measures at our disposal under the Treaties,' he said in the letter sent yesterday.

    EU officials said that exports could be blocked if they were deemed to violate contracts between drugs firms and the EU.

    Earlier, MEPs had threatened a 'trade war' with the UK over the issue while there were claims officials have been sent from the medicines agency to the AstraZeneca plant in Belgium to check it genuinely has problems producing doses.

    The bloc continues to pile the pressure on the UK-based pharma giant to bail out its shambolic vaccine rollout. European politicians warned the 'consequences' of refusing to divert stocks of the UK-made jabs to EU would be a ban on exports of the Pfizer version from Belgium - suggesting 3.5million doses due to arrive soon could be at risk.

    EU chiefs want more of the Oxford jabs - made in Staffordshire and Oxfordshire - to be handed over to make up for a 75million shortfall on the continent.

    The European Commission said the Anglo-Swedish firm was obliged to meet its contractual obligations despite production issues at its Belgian site.

    So far both AstraZeneca and Pfizer look to be holding firm against the sabre-rattling from Brussels.

    It comes after MEPs warned that the UK would 'suffer' for denying the EU, and the bloc's health commissioner insisted Britain should not receive priority – even though it signed a contract with AstraZeneca three months before Brussels did.

    Stella Kyriakides said: 'We reject the logic of first come, first served. That may work in a butcher's shop but not in contracts and not in our advanced purchase agreements.'

    Cabinet minister Michael Gove said the UK will discuss 'how we can help' the EU's vaccination effort. But asked if the UK might lose out because the EU has not got enough doses, Mr Gove said: 'No. The programme of vaccination has been agreed and assured and the supplies were fixed some time ago and we will make sure that the vaccine programme proceeds exactly as planned.'

    He told ITV's Good Morning Britain: 'Of course it is the case that we will want to talk with our friends in Europe to see how we can help, but the really important thing is making sure that our own vaccination programme proceeds precisely as planned.'

    While AstraZeneca has committed to 'even closer' co-ordination with EU officials, the company stuck firmly to its guns, saying it had been 'open' with the bloc about the 'complexities' of scaling up its vaccine production.

    The firm also left a small but poignant sting in the tail, with a reminder to European leaders of its commitment to provide millions of vaccines to people across the continent 'at no profit' during the pandemic.

    It comes as sources said Britain has enough vaccines to last this year and meet its targets and could end up distributing them to other countries anyway.

    Meanwhile an industry insider rubbished fears Brussels may try to divert the UK's vaccines as 'political rhetoric', but warned if it did it 'would be a human rights issue for millions of people'.

    In other developments:

    • European Commission said AstraZeneca is obliged to meet contractual agreement to supply vaccines to EU
    • EU's health commissioner insisted that UK should not receive priority, despite placing order months earlier
    • Astra-Zeneca warned EU it would only receive quarter of the 100million doses it expected to have by April
    • But firm stuck to its guns, saying it had 'been open' with EU chiefs over 'complexities' of scaling up production
    • Inspectors apparently sent into AstraZeneca's Belgian plant to check there really are delays to the process
    • Michael Gove insisted the EU's shortages should have no impact on the UK's agreements for getting doses
    By James Tapsfield, Political Editor For Mailonline

    Published: 20:15 AEDT, 28 January 2021 | Updated: 04:38 AEDT, 29 January 2021





    How did the UK end up as one of the world's leading countries on the vaccine roll-out?
    The UK is one of the world's leading countries when it comes to the speed of the roll-out of its coronavirus vaccination programme - a fact made all the more impressive given where the nation started when the pandemic hit early last year.

    At that point the country had just one vaccine manufacturing site - a facility in Liverpool which made flu jabs.

    But the Government quickly set up a vaccine task force in April to make sure the UK was well-positioned to benefit from medical breakthroughs.

    The experts appointed to the task force reportedly recommended seven projects for investment within its first two weeks, according to The Times.

    Advance purchase orders were hammered out by the task force with suppliers despite the fact there were no guarantees that any of the vaccines would work or that they would be signed off by regulators.

    That early work meant the UK was in pole position to receive the jabs, if and when they were shown to be effective and safe.

    The task force's strategy means two companies have been relied upon to do much of the heavy lifting during the UK's vaccine roll-out: Pfizer and AstraZeneca.

    The UK ordered 40 million doses from the former and 100 million doses from the latter.

    Agreements are also in place with a handful of other would-be suppliers should their products get the green light.

    The speed with which the UK moved on vaccines was perhaps best illustrated this week when Pascal Soriot, the chief executive of AstraZeneca, revealed the deal with Britain was agreed three months before the EU's.

    The UK's supply of the AstraZeneca vaccine is made at sites in Oxford and Staffordshire before it is put into vials at a facility in Wrexham, while the Pfizer jab is made in Belgium.

    Every new batch of vaccine in the UK has to be safety tested by the National Institute of Biological Standards and Control in Hertfordshire before it can be sent for delivery.

    This process takes about four days and once each batch has been rubber-stamped it is taken to secure Government warehouses where the NHS takes over the process and decides where the doses will be sent.

    The physical roll-out of the vaccine is headquartered from an NHS office in London, with doses sent to more than 1,400 vaccine sites across the country.

    It is easily the biggest vaccination drive in the history of the health service and many believe it will become an annual programme.

    Germany's vaccine commission has recommended that the AstraZeneca jab only be used for under-65s because there is not enough evidence about whether it works on the elderly;
    • Mr Johnson insisted he is not concerned by the recommendation in Germany, saying the UK regulator concluded the jab 'provides a good immune response across all age groups';
    • Covid-19 case rates are continuing to fall in all regions of England, according to the latest weekly surveillance report from Public Health England;
    • German Chancellor Angela Merkel has called a high-level meeting with vaccine manufacturers next week after her health minister warned its shortage of jabs will stretch into April;
    • Boris Johnson is visiting Scotland despite Nicola Sturgeon insisting that his trip is not 'essential' amid coronavirus lockdown;
    • French firm Valneva has started manufacturing a new vaccine in Scotland that is expected to deliver up to 60 million doses for the UK by the end of this year if it wins approval;
    • The PM has announced schools will not reopen until at least March 8, with ministers plotting a phased exit from lockdown that could see non-essential shops back up and running in April, and pubs in May;
    • There is confusion over Priti Patel's plans for all Britons to produce a written declaration that they are going for 'essential' reasons before leaving the country;
    • Mr Gove revealed that ministers will review today what countries are covered by new 'quarantine hotel' rules, even though they were only announced yesterday;
    • Latest figures showed 7.16million people have had a coronavirus jab in the UK, with over 1,400 sites in operation;
    • The Children's Commissioner warned mental health services for young people were hopelessly overstretched.

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    • German scientists said they will not recommend it for over-65s because they believe there is not yet enough evidence.

      The PM and Public Health England struck a bullish note after a Berlin commission said there was 'insufficient data to assess the efficacy of the vaccine for persons aged 65 years and older'.

      British regulators, by contrast, have approved the jab for all age groups - with AstraZeneca pointing to data published in a medical journal showing that 100 per cent of older adults generated antibodies in trials.

      Germany's stance comes amid an angry row between the EU and AstraZeneca over vaccine supplies, with the bloc lagging far behind Britain in immunising its population against Covid-19.

      Although it is possible the position could change with more evidence, it raises the prospect of splits between the UK and EU on what vaccines are regarded as effective - with speculation that in the future travel to some destinations could be contingent on having been inoculated.

      On a visit to Scotland this afternoon, Mr Johnson said he was not worried about the news from Germany. 'No, because the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency) our own authorities have made it very clear that they think the Oxford-AstraZeneca is very good and efficacious and gives a high degree of protection after just one does and even more after two doses,' he said.

      The PM said the MHRA concluded the vaccine is 'effective across all age groups' and 'provides a good immune response across all age groups'. He added on the German conclusions: 'So I don't agree with that.'

      Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisations at PHE, said there had been 'too few cases' of coronavirus in older people in Phase 3 clinical trial to determine efficacy in this age group, but other data on immune response had been 'reassuring'.

      AstraZeneca said: 'The latest analyses of clinical trial data for the AstraZeneca/Oxford Covid-19 vaccine support efficacy in the over 65 years age group.'

      Times: 'There is plenty of vaccine. It exceeds what the government wants to do.'

      The industry insider also told the newspaper the demands from Brussels were 'political rhetoric' and would be a 'human rights issue' if they did try to divert doses.

      They said: 'They cannot stop vaccines that are contracted for delivery. Some of these vaccines have already been given to people who are due to receive their second dose. It would be a human rights issue for millions of people if that process was stopped.'

      Mr Johnson said it would have been a 'great pity' if the UK had stayed in the EU's vaccine programme rather than set up its own plan.

      'I do think that we've been able to do things differently, and better, in some ways,' the Prime Minister told MPs. More than a tenth of the UK population has received at least one dose of the coronavirus vaccine.

      This compares to just 1.75 per cent in France, 1.96 per cent in Germany, 2.50 per cent in Spain and 2.15 per cent in Italy.

      Meanwhile experts revealed how Britain's vaccine roll out will limit the spread of coronavirus, but by exactly how much will not be made clear until mid-February.

      Providing a boost to the UK's hopes of ending lockdown, England's deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam said jabs 'couldn't fail to have some effect on transmission'.

      He said it was less a question of 'will they?' and rather 'to what extent' will inoculation help to reduce the spread.

      But Boris Johnson and his chief scientists said last night that experts won't know much effect the coronavirus vaccines are having on the country's epidemic until mid-February.

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      The PM said the impact of the jabs won't be felt in hospital and deaths data until then due to the lag in time it takes between getting injected and developing immunity.

      He told a Downing Street press conference tonight that he would not consider lifting lockdown restrictions until he'd seen concrete 'evidence that those graphs are coming down'.

      The immunisation drive has only really got up to speed in the last few weeks and it takes between a fortnight and a month for a person to build up immunity.

      Both the Pfizer and Oxford University vaccines have been proven to block severe illness, so experts hope they'll start to make a dent in the death and hospitalisation rates in the coming weeks.

      No10's scientists will be monitoring those metrics, specifically in the most vulnerable groups - including the over-80s, over-75s and care homes residents - who are currently receiving the jabs.

      So far 6.8million, or one in 10, people in Britain have received at least one dose of the vaccines. In three weeks time, when most of those people have protection, experts will expect to see a near 10 per cent drop in hospital admissions.

      Not all of the people vaccinated will be immune, however, because the jabs are not perfect. Pfizer's is 95 per cent effective at blocking severe disease, while Oxford's is around 70 per cent.

      Another burning question which will determine how gung-ho ministers can be with easing restriction is to what extent the vaccines stop people from spreading Covid.

      The Government has commissioned a study to investigate the vaccines and their role on transmission, which is being overseen by Public Health England. It is focused on frontline healthcare workers who've been jabbed.

      England's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, told tonight's Downing Street press conference: 'I think you've got to be extremely cautious and wait until we've got proper data.

      'It's too early to say what's happening in the UK. It's being looked at very, very carefully. You shouldn't expect to see nobody getting ill who's been vaccinated. Vaccines are not 100 per cent effective. We will still see people who get disease.

      'We will still see people who get severe disease, but it will be much, much reduced with the vaccine, and we need to wait and look at the data and get proper estimates of that rather than try to make early cuts and guesses as to what this is showing.'
     
    #60342
  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    How many pharmaceutical firms will want to open manufacturing facilities in EU member state countries now?
    Have to inform EU who they're exporting to & how many.
    Run the risk of orders being requisitioned if the EU throw a strop.
    Premises graced with unexpected visitors to snoop
     
    #60343
  4. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Their behaviour over the last week has been extremely odd. Credit where it's due, the UK Government has been genuinely world class on vaccine procurement and roll out.
     
    #60344
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  5. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the EU behaviour has been true to form, but then I would of course.
     
    #60345
  6. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    We can at least agree that this is very overtly odd. Everything about it: how slow the regulatory approval has been, the number of doses they have tried to buy, the comms. True to form or not, I'm glad we struck out on our own on this at least!
     
    #60346
  7. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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  8. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    The more they become Nationalistic and bureaucratic the more companies will turn their backs on them.
    I said at the beginning of all this Brexit stuff that they wrap themselves in so much red tape it strangles them.
     
    #60348
  9. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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  10. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Layla Moran
    Jul 10, 2020 Walking away from the EU vaccines scheme is putting ideology ahead of public health. You would think that during a pandemic ministers would put political dogma aside. But it seems for this government it’s Brexit over vaccines https://theguardian.com/world/2020/jul
     
    #60350
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  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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  12. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    :emoticon-0127-lipss
     
    #60352
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  13. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    I will see if I can paste it.
     
    #60353
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  14. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Goldie I read the article then posted and now there is some subscription thing on it? which is weird because I am now reading another article without any problems? it basically said that if they blocked things it would affect the chain for many countries and small businesses. it wouldn't look good on them. I will see if I can get another way.
     
    #60354
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  15. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    It's this kind of statement that really sums up some people's totally blind loyalty to our former masters.
     
    #60355
  16. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    You will always get a few fanatics that will go down with the ship?
     
    #60356
  17. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Blimey the Germans on Twitter are turning on their masters.


    And for those that don't speak any German...
    I have to admit: My trust in the # EU Commission and Ms. von der Leyen is shaken if even the censorship of a contract goes wrong. Just sayin ....
     
    #60357
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  18. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Your summary is fine for me, Ellers. Thanks

    The contractual position appears to be that AZ agreed to use its best reasonable endeavors to provide the EU with vaccines. The EU is saying, ah yes, but there is also a clause in the contract by which AZ confirms that its deal with the EU doesn't conflict with any agreement with another party ie the UK.

    However, senior English lawyers are saying, it doesn't conflict. The goods the EU are trying to get their hands on came about as a result of the UK contract with AZ 3 month earlier than the EU. There was no conflict, if anything the UK contract helped the EU because AZ started developing the vaccine earlier.

    The EU is now applying authoritarian measures to stop vaccines due to the UK and others leaving the jurisdiction of EU member states.

    This dispute will be headed for the courts but don't ask me which f*cking court it will go to. Not the ECJ surely as that will not be impartial. The Commission is coming out of this debacle covered in ****
     
    #60358
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  19. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree many unhappy people on Twitter slating 'Von Der whatshername' and the EU. I'm pleased that people are also using the word 'Bullies'. Exactly what we have been saying for some time. They will come out of this with egg on their face.
     
    #60359
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  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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