Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Willhoops]

On the other hand though Wills, some could say it’s somewhat strange that people like yourself seem more outraged about a banner flown over a football match....than 3 people being murdered sitting in a park minding their own business......

Some would be making some very nasty assumptions then wouldn't some. Right I wasn't on line when that attack happened, I did however read some of the comments which used the situation to have a go at the BLM movement and undermine what they are doing, when by all accounts it had nothing to do with the BLM movement.

I understand it was a very emotive situation and tensions will be high, this bloke was on the MI5 radar from last year. Whilst terrorist attacks have dropped one is one way too many, bit like deaths by police in the BME community, do we blame and hate all Libyans because of the terrorist attacks? No bit like we won't blame all the police for the actions of a few, you'd do look into what was around Mr Saadallah, his associates, his influences and try and prevent further attacks, bit like what is being asked of police and police processes.

I shouldn't really be mentioning BLM when it comes to the terrorist attack as one and two are seperate entities, the only reason I do is because of what was written on this thread previously.

 

[Willhoops]

Why was he pissed
Why should they be shamed
All lives matter
Black and white
Even asians

Maybe you should ask Joe.

**** prostate cancer charities all cancers matter!!!
**** veterans charities all retirees matter!!!


Come on Kiwi it's not difficult to understand, it really isn't

 

[Staines R's]

Some would be making some very nasty assumptions then wouldn't some. Right I wasn't on line when that attack happened, I did however read some of the comments which used the situation to have a go at the BLM movement and undermine what they are doing, when by all accounts it had nothing to do with the BLM movement.

I understand it was a very emotive situation and tensions will be high, this bloke was on the MI5 radar from last year. Whilst terrorist attacks have dropped one is one way too many, bit like deaths by police in the BME community, do we blame and hate all Libyans because of the terrorist attacks? No bit like we won't blame all the police for the actions of a few, you'd do look into what was around Mr Saadallah, his associates, his influences and try and prevent further attacks, bit like what is being asked of police and police processes.

I shouldn't really be mentioning BLM when it comes to the terrorist attack as one and two are seperate entities, the only reason I do is because of what was written on this thread previously.

So how are people ‘having a go’ at the BLM movement ? Are we as individuals allowed to disagree with some of their aims ?

 

[Willhoops]

So how are people ‘having a go’ at the BLM movement ? Are we as individuals allowed to disagree with some of their aims ?

So after it happened there weren't comments aimed at the BLM movement with negative connotations?

What are their aims? I mean the official movements, from their official material or an official spokesperson, not some random who has made it onto the internet clip. Otherwise you may as well just say that anyone on here speaks on behalf of the club

 

[Staines R's]

So after it happened there weren't comments aimed at the BLM movement with negative connotations?

What are their aims? I mean the official movements, from their official material or an official spokesperson, not some random who has made it onto the internet clip. Otherwise you may as well just say that anyone on here speaks on behalf of the club

As you are a great supporter I’m genuinely surprised you don’t know all the aims of the movement.....If you go to their ‘go fund me page’ that has raised over a million quid you can see for your self Wills. Or is it that the ‘go fund me’ page isn’t official and is in fact run by crooks after a fast buck.

And I’ve already said my comments are aimed at the anti-police agenda off the movement....I really couldn’t make that any clearer could I ?

 

[Staines R's]

So after it happened there weren't comments aimed at the BLM movement with negative connotations?

What are their aims? I mean the official movements, from their official material or an official spokesperson, not some random who has made it onto the internet clip. Otherwise you may as well just say that anyone on here speaks on behalf of the club

“We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain”

Copy and pasted for you Wills......so do you want to dismantle Capitalism and state structures ?
I had you down as more of a liberal than a free thinking anarchist

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

As you are a great supporter I’m genuinely surprised you don’t know all the aims of the movement.....If you go to their ‘go fund me page’ that has raised over a million quid you can see for your self Wills. Or is it that the ‘go fund me’ page isn’t official and is in fact run by crooks after a fast buck.

And I’ve already said my comments are aimed at the anti-police agenda off the movement....I really couldn’t make that any clearer could I ?

Thought they were funded by George Soros.

 

[Willhoops]

As you are a great supporter I’m genuinely surprised you don’t know all the aims of the movement.....If you go to their ‘go fund me page’ that has raised over a million quid you can see for your self Wills. Or is it that the ‘go fund me’ page isn’t official and is in fact run by crooks after a fast buck.

And I’ve already said my comments are aimed at the anti-police agenda off the movement....I really couldn’t make that any clearer could I ?

Ok I don't support the abolition of the police, don't know why that is in there, especially as the previous line says 'Developing and delivering training, police monitoring'. I Willhoops am against the abolition of the dibbles. With the rest of the stuff though.

 

[Willhoops]

“We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain”

Copy and pasted for you Wills......so do you want to dismantle Capitalism and state structures ?
I had you down as more of a liberal than a free thinking anarchist

Bit of both, maybe more to the hippie side of it.

This is the official what we believe is more in fitting for me maybe, obviously with any detailed movement like this there will be certain parts that I might not agree with, bit like saying I've voted for a political party is saying you agree with every last detail in their manifesto

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

 

[Sooperhoop]

Whoever is behind BLM has very cleverly used a slogan which any decent-minded person would agree with as a battering-ram to drive an unworkable political agenda. They appear to be as deranged as Extinction Rebellion in believing they can use civil disobedience to get their way.

Everyone is expected to support BLM or else you're a racist, it has echoes of the Brexit campaign and is far more divisive in the long term as those that can see the movement for what it is are automatically labelled racist, there's no middle ground here. I've said from the start I agree with the sentiment but not their political agenda...

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I'm slightly bemused by all this fuss over the plane poster. White Lives Matter. That statement is not negative or incorrect. White lives do matter. I do think it would have been better if the poster had added "too".

I'm deeply suspicious of BLM as a movement, particularly as, in addition to peaceful protestors, it seems to attract a violent mob. I agree with what Pep Guardiola said last night - all lives matter and we must all act to kick out the scourge of racism.

I still don't know what the BLM movement want UK society to do to help African Brits. Others of the BAME community, like those from Indian, Pakistan, Far Eastern countries, China etc seem to be doing well in our society. The UK did not kill George Floyd. The UK is not responsible for hiring, training and disciplining US cops.

 

[SARQPR]

I think that it has raised some very real issues about inequalities here in the UK too

But....I hate the divisiveness of campaigns like this. There are a huge number of - for example - physically disabled people, many of whom are effectively shut out of employment, struggle to use public transport and so on. Yet I'm not accused of able bodied privilege and made to feel that I'm not supportive of change because I'm not at a demo or throwing a statue into a harbour

I like to think that I treat everyone (well, maybe not quite everyone.....) as I'd wish to be treated myself and that my actions have spoken louder than words

Change will come but it has to be by consent, by which I mean people wanting to change rather than feeling they are being forced to change. It will also require - in the BLM context - a change of attitude amongst some sections of the black community, particularly young men who prefer to glorify gang culture, sexism and so on.

There is too much intolerance in the UK at the moment, and recent events political and other certainly haven't helped, but we all need to take a look at ourselves and how we can help improve life for everyone, however small our individual contributions

 

[kiwiqpr]

Maybe you should ask Joe.

**** prostate cancer charities all cancers matter!!!
**** veterans charities all retirees matter!!!


Come on Kiwi it's not difficult to understand, it really isn't

Next time I see Joe I will ask him
Would he have been so upset with
Syrian lives matters or Chinese lives matters
Not all cancer charities will be treated equally
I bet breast cancer collects more from the public than anal cancer
They would have better pr to start with

 

[Willhoops]

Next time I see Joe I will ask him
Would he have been so upset with
Syrian lives matters or Chinese lives matters
Not all cancer charities will be treated equally
I bet breast cancer collects more from the public than anal cancer
They would have better pr to start with

Well that didn't happen did it, and hasn't been happening over the world, that's another question why it's predominantly whites that feel the need to speak up about their lives matter too, wonder what issues are being highlighted, which organisations are being questioned about institutionalised racism.

Do you think he would have been so upset if someone had flown over an all retirees matter banner if it was veterans day? Do you think he might have thought that would have been extremely disrespectful?

So do you think that all charities should be put into one basket and shared equally, in that the causes are all equal? No individual charitable caused represented, no issues highlighted as it might be seen to be detracting from another? It seems to be what you are suggesting

 

[Staines R's]

Ok I don't support the abolition of the police, don't know why that is in there, especially as the previous line says 'Developing and delivering training, police monitoring'. I Willhoops am against the abolition of the dibbles. With the rest of the stuff though.

What about the dismantling of Capitalism ?

 

[Staines R's]

Bit of both, maybe more to the hippie side of it.

This is the official what we believe is more in fitting for me maybe, obviously with any detailed movement like this there will be certain parts that I might not agree with, bit like saying I've voted for a political party is saying you agree with every last detail in their manifesto

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

With respect Wills, abolishing the Po-Po and dismantling Capitalism/Imperialism seem to be pretty high up there with the BLM policies/aims

 

[Staines R's]

So do you think that all charities should be put into one basket and shared equally, in that the causes are all equal? No individual charitable caused represented, no issues highlighted as it might be seen to be detracting from another? It seems to be what you are suggesting

You actually might be on to something here Wills.........

 

[Willhoops]

With respect Wills, abolishing the Po-Po and dismantling Capitalism/Imperialism seem to be pretty high up there with the BLM policies/aims

Not on the official what we believe page, no mention of it in fact, had another quick browse of the site and couldn't find anything.

I find it strange that you are asking me if I agree with each and every policy of all of those that claim to represent the movement, where I have clearly said I didn't. Like I said earlier, it's like saying that if you vote for a party, or support a cause you have to justify everything within their manifesto/policies/what has been done historically, everything that a supporter group of that party says... you wouldn't expect to do that surely? So I wonder why you expect that of me, what exactly are you trying to get out of this?

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Others of the BAME community, like those from Indian, Pakistan, Far Eastern countries, China etc seem to be doing well in our society.

Why do you think that might be?

 

[SARQPR]

Why do you think that might be?

You beat me to it

I'm hypothesising that this may have something to do with the greater likelihood of family units remaining intact in certain ethnic groups coupled with a bigger range of visible role models (who has never had an Indian / Pakistani doctor?)

Clearly not the only factors, but I bet they are significant