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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Yes, on the NHS they are. Not on renationalisation and all the freebies Corbyn offered to get votes. A mansion or land tax may be introduced. This pandemic is the equivalent of funding a major war. It will force extraordinary changes in the policies of the political parties, here and abroad
     
    #48141
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  2. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to be slow to come back to this. Juggled work today with laying some new turf in my garden which was extremely satisfying.

    On one hand I don't disagree that this could change attitudes and engender support for more tax and spend. This virus could radically change all sorts of previously held views and beliefs. On the other hand, it's plausible that it could entrench some very different views, especially if the economies which went through austerity can now afford significantly larger stimulus packages and therefore bounce back far more quickly. Who knows?

    This is certainly the time that the richest should make the biggest contribution, but that's always been the case, which is why it is welcome that (roughly) half of all income tax is paid by the top 5% of earners.

    I also disagree with the assertion that capitalism doesn't work at a time of national crisis.
    (a) Capitalism doesn't necessitate no (or even a small) role for the state
    (b) All the capital governments are currently spending come from prospering businesses, past, present and future
    (c) Multiple businesses are partnering with the government e.g. those engineering ventilators
    (d) Govt recognises the ultimate solution to this issue will be a vaccine that will almost certainly come from the private sector

    It's an interesting question to think about how this will change the future. I certainly think a lot of businesses will learn that home working is generally a good thing and keep it up etc
     
    #48142
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  3. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #48143
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  4. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    How dare they not celebrate the fantastic work of our dear leaders.
     
    #48144
  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Happy Anzac day
     
    #48145
  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Ridiculous.

    The government has a daily propaganda broadcast and lies through its teeth.

    'We have followed the scientific advice at all times'.
     
    #48146
  7. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    Dominic ****ing ****ings <laugh>

    it’s another sign of totalitarian though, shout down any media that isn’t pro government, you remember when we all laughed at the Koreans and the Russian media ... well
     
    #48147
  8. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    The cartoon is a response to the latest YouGov poll that finds that 72% of the public don't trust journalists (and presumably media owners like Murdoch)
     
    #48148
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  9. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    And how tw2ts like SkyNews has turned this serious pandemic in Transfer deadline day.
     
    #48149
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  10. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I saw that and found it interesting. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the usual media cheerleaders aren’t being quite so cheeleadery and the great unwashed suddenly find them less trustworthy.
     
    #48150

  11. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Well I wouldn't trust Murdoch and his like, but it's a bit hard on ordinary journalists who are just doing their jobs by asking difficult questions of the government. There seems to be an attitude about that anyone who criticises the government is some kind of traitor. The government lies, journalists call them out on these lies, and the public turns on the journos. I don't trust an illogically terrified public to make logical judgments.
     
    #48151
  12. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    In response to Murdock controlled media? Bbc and itv?
     
    #48152
  13. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    BBC and SKY took undisguised Remain positions on Brexit, and politically, the BBC is still stuck in the Blair years. Trump dared to say that certain revered publications and news sites were fake news. The public looked at this and found that, in some cases (particularly where owners are using their media outlets to peddle a certain message), it really is fake news
     
    #48153
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  14. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    You beat me to it!
     
    #48154
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  15. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Yes, agree it is hard on those straightforward journalists who are trying to bring truth to the public and hold government to account
     
    #48155
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  16. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    You only think the government lies because you don't like them. When an anti-government story comes out you support it (like Watford) without knowing the full facts.

    A good example was the Guardian story on Dominic Cummings being at the scientific advisory group meetings.
    A ludicrous story that was posted by Watford which was trying to say that Cummings was at "secret meetings" (which they are not) and interfering. Without hesitation you commented:

    "As I suspected, the government leading the scientists."


    As it pans out the story is a non-starter and was rubbished very quickly after.

    One reporter who has no love for the Tories said she was "baffled by this story" and "it makes sense that the PM's adviser would be in the room able to challenge the evidence but also make sure the questions the PM want's asked, are asked and that things are being presented in a way that the PM and senior ministers will be able to digest. Translating between scientific evidence and the way politicians think and understand is a really important role. There is no evidence that Mr Cummings and his colleague were in fact overruling or interfering or behaving badly in those meetings. The fact that they attended strikes me as not anywhere near as controversial as it is communicated in this story".

    Another reporter said "I'm amazed at the ingenuity of the Guardian to be able to write headlines which means I don't like Dominic Cummings in so many different forms and ways over the weeks/months he has been involved in government. it's inevitable a Prime Minister will have a political advisor attending such meetings. They are not secret. Of course, there should be someone there from number !0 who represents the Prime Ministers' views, who is close to the PM and is able to understand what the PM wants out of those meetings... that's his job I don't see the point of stories like this in the Guardian. They just don't like the man. If that is what they mean they should just come out and be honest. Print 'We Don't like Dominic Cummings' and see who cares."
     
    #48156
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  17. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    We’d know the full facts if they were open about them. They aren’t so we don’t. You have to admit it’s a bit fishy to claim we “follow the science” as a mantra every day and find out there’s a eugenicist and extremely close ally of the Prime Minister in the room asking questions.
     
    #48157
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  18. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Reporters are rubbishing this story. Cummings didn't interfere. Maybe you should eat some humble pie mate because the story is b2222222's
     
    #48158
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  19. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    If he’s in the room asking questions and then has the ear of the Prime Minister arguably more than anyone else then he’s interfering. He’s not a scientist. He’s not even a behavioural scientist.
     
    #48159
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  20. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    The story is a non-starter for someone who slavishly follows the government line on everything.

    I saw a previous CMO, from the Blair years, on Newsnight and he said that there should never be political advisers at these meetings and that there never would have been in his time. It should be down down to the CMO to report back to the government and it's plain that Whitty was uncomfortable with Cummings's presence and influence. Do you believe that the initial herd immunity approach was not influenced by Cummings?
     
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