Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

The government that you voted for and support

TBH bob you bring nothing to the table really. When I read your posts it's just anti-tory/Brexit rhetoric. Nothing else. Like sheep you follow the project fear line.
Even last night they said a think tank gathered all the Brexit information/project fear crap and it was proved to be mostly crap. That's not me, that was from an independent body. People like me won't be fooled by this rubbish. You may fall for it but don't include me in your group.
Your plasterboard post today has made me and others laugh. You can't see the bigger picture. Brexit may have added to uncertainty but the main increases of 7% is due to a world demand, a bit like Celotex. (that took me 30 seconds to look up and confirm).
You contradict yourself and when you make a mistake, you then try and twist it. You can't even accept when you are wrong... like today when discussing medicines? You just made yourself look stupid with your reply.

Now regarding 'My government', I support them because they are the best of what is there. No sane person would want to vote for Comrade Corbyn and that rabble of thick shadow cabinet MP's.

Regarding Brexit... If you want to look over the thread you will see I have been pretty much spot on with what is happening.
Remember all the people saying there would be a second vote and Brexit wouldn't happen?
Remember all the people saying we would be in a recession and the pound would collapse?
Remember all the other crap about Brexit?
Where are they now?

 

[DT’s Socks]

Though doubtless many will be happy to claim any future good news for Brexit.

Perhaps Brexit is just irrelevant, it won’t have any impact either way. Perhaps it’s all a dream, like a series of Dallas. Who shot J R (M)?

It won’t be long now until the trend of marketing and the manufacturing of goods for the U.K. based within the EU will become crystal clear

There is certainly a common denominator within the businesses I have been involved in ... simply put there is more money to be made with goods and services bound for the U.K. from operations based in the EU

I believe the strategy was to prepare and then wait until the outcome was very clear as it is now

Now we will see if these business trends are right

So strong is the consumer demand inside the U.K. that most I know see the opportunity because the U.K. customer will pay whatever the price .

I believe this will happen 100% based on what I experience week in week out just with the future marketing campaign strategies for Q3

 

[DT’s Socks]

Price increases will be everywhere if the loony brigade get their way! Cuckoo

Don’t think are many people who think things will be cheaper ... there will be some areas that seem untouched eg Poundland but in a year what will a pound buy you?
Secret: my company owns Poundland lock stock and barrel... rebranding projects already taking place ... same for Fatface and dfs

 

[bobmid]

TBH bob you bring nothing to the table really. When I read your posts it's just anti-tory/Brexit rhetoric. Nothing else. Like sheep you follow the project fear line.
Even last night they said a think tank gathered all the Brexit information/project fear crap and it was proved to be mostly crap. That's not me, that was from an independent body. People like me won't be fooled by this rubbish. You may fall for it but don't include me in your group.
Your plasterboard post today has made me and others laugh. You can't see the bigger picture. Brexit may have added to uncertainty but the main increases of 7% is due to a world demand, a bit like Celotex. (that took me 30 seconds to look up and confirm).
You contradict yourself and when you make a mistake, you then try and twist it. You can't even accept when you are wrong... like today when discussing medicines? You just made yourself look stupid with your reply.

Now regarding 'My government', I support them because they are the best of what is there. No sane person would want to vote for Comrade Corbyn and that rabble of thick shadow cabinet MP's.

Regarding Brexit... If you want to look over the thread you will see I have been pretty much spot on with what is happening.
Remember all the people saying there would be a second vote and Brexit wouldn't happen?
Remember all the people saying we would be in a recession and the pound would collapse?
Remember all the other crap about Brexit?
Where are they now?

Did you say something? not even going to bother reading it. Will be spin doctored drivel no doubt

 

[sb_73]

The EU says it won't relent on an indefinite backstop to prevent a hard border. Yet in the event of a no deal, the EU will be obliged to instate a hard border anyway, in addition to the damage to jobs and economies on the Continent.

In this situation, if you were May, wouldn't you call their bluff?

If I knew I could deliver to the Conservative & Unionist Party a no deal solution which maintains an open border with Ireland I might be tempted. Because a closed border will be a massive boost for nationalists (“you can’t trust the feckin’ English’) and against the wishes of the vast majority of the Northern Irish, who didn’t want to leave the EU in the first place.

What is she going to sacrifice if they don’t budge? As far as I understand it our government is fully committed to the Good Friday Agreement, and many of the tedious technical elements of this are at least facilitated or at most depend on membership of the EU - for example essentially a non existent border. She has to sacrifice either Good Friday or a Brexit that takes us out of the Customs Union.

And before you come back with a ‘technological’ solution, the most sophisticated border on earth is between Norway and Sweden. It takes a lorry about 15 minutes to get through.

 

[ELLERS]

Did you say something? not even going to bother reading it. Will be spin doctored drivel no doubt

That's fine fella. put you fingers in your ears, close your eyes and get back to your plasterboard.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

If I knew I could deliver to the Conservative & Unionist Party a no deal solution which maintains an open border with Ireland I might be tempted. Because a closed border will be a massive boost for nationalists (“you can’t trust the feckin’ English’) and against the wishes of the vast majority of the Northern Irish, who didn’t want to leave the EU in the first place.

What is she going to sacrifice if they don’t budge? As far as I understand it our government is fully committed to the Good Friday Agreement, and many of the tedious technical elements of this are at least facilitated or at most depend on membership of the EU - for example essentially a non existent border. She has to sacrifice either Good Friday or a Brexit that takes us out of the Customs Union.

And before you come back with a ‘technological’ solution, the most sophisticated border on earth is between Norway and Sweden. It takes a lorry about 15 minutes to get through.

If there's a no deal, the UK won't put up a border. Nor will the Irish. It will be the EU that has to put up a hard border. It's their border post Brexit. So why shouldn't May call their bluff about the backstop duration?

 

[sb_73]

If there's a no deal, the UK won't put up a border. Nor will the Irish. It will be the EU that has to put up a hard border. It's their border post Brexit. So why shouldn't May call their bluff about the backstop duration?

Go and read the WTO rules.

And even the Unionists in Ireland will finally understand that it’s what a majority of voters in England want that counts with whoever forms the UK government.

 

[bobmid]

That's fine fella. put you fingers in your ears, close your eyes and get back to your plasterboard.

You must log in or register to see images

 

[ELLERS]

Go and read the WTO rules.

I think the way it is going we should all read them.
Today she has confirmed that she wants changes to the document. The EU won't make those changes (at present). That leaves her with a choice. According to some brexiteers today they think we may be heading for WTO. Some have said it actually may be the 'preferred option'.
As I type this an advert has just come on telling all businesses to look at the government guidelines re Brexit.
They are really ramping this up now.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Go and read the WTO rules.

And even the Unionists in Ireland will finally understand that it’s what a majority of voters in England want that counts with whoever forms the UK government.

That's not much of an answer, Stan. What have WTO rules to do with keeping a soft border?

 

[sb_73]

I think the way it is going we should all read them.
Today she has confirmed that she wants changes to the document. The EU won't make those changes (at present). That leaves her with a choice. According to some brexiteers today they think we may be heading for WTO. Some have said it actually may be the 'preferred option'.
As I type this an advert has just come on telling all businesses to look at the government guidelines re Brexit.
They are really ramping this up now.

They are, as are the EU. And I refer you to Dan’s posts about what’s going on Civil Service to civil service (and Dan knows his stuff). Half the food industry has told the government it won’t take part in any of the many consultations going in because they are too busy planning for a no deal. WTO is meant to be the backstop for where there are no trade treaties. Attempts to reform WTO started in 2001 (the Doha round) stalled in 2008 and have made no progress since then. It really is the place of last resort. So yes, we should read and understand the WTO option.

Did you hear Ken Clarke talking about trade to May today? I laughed out loud, in a kind of ironic, twisted way.

That's not much of an answer, Stan. What have WTO rules to do with keeping a soft border?

While WTO does not technically require a hard border, it does require you to protect the integrity of your ‘single market’, which amounts to the same thing. Neither the UK or EU single markets have integrity, unless the UK unilaterally follows all EU regulations and standards and does not impose tariffs. And the EU does not impose tariffs.

Luckily I don’t expect you to respond to direct questions, as you never do, I would be very frustrated. But let’s try....given the choice between not being in the Customs Union and NI leaving the UK what would you take?

 

[ELLERS]

Oh look
We were told on March 30th everything will stop...
Trains will be permitted to use the Channel Tunnel for three months if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, under a proposed European Commission law.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47215904
3 months then it will be a year , 5 years, forever.

 

[ELLERS]

They are, as are the EU. And I refer you to Dan’s posts about what’s going on Civil Service to civil service (and Dan knows his stuff). Half the food industry has told the government it won’t take part in any of the many consultations going in because they are too busy planning for a no deal. WTO is meant to be the backstop for where there are no trade treaties. Attempts to reform WTO started in 2001 (the Doha round) stalled in 2008 and have made no progress since then. It really is the place of last resort. So yes, we should read and understand the WTO option.

Did you hear Ken Clarke talking about trade to May today? I laughed out loud, in a kind of ironic, twisted way.

While WTO does not technically require a hard border, it does require you to protect the integrity of your ‘single market’, which amounts to the same thing. Neither the UK or EU single markets have integrity, unless the UK unilaterally follows all EU regulations and standards and does not impose tariffs. And the EU does not impose tariffs.

Luckily I don’t expect you to respond to direct questions, as you never do, I would be very frustrated. But let’s try....given the choice between not being in the Customs Union and NI leaving the UK what would you take?

Agree KC was witty.

 

[ELLERS]

The EU looks like the Soviet Union in 1991 – on the verge of collapse
George Soros
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-soviet-union-european-elections-george-soros

 

[ELLERS]

Sb do you think there will be a no deal/Mays deal or something else?

 

[ELLERS]

This is interesting. He seems to have changed his tune.
Mark Carney drops Project Fear as he talks up free trade potential of Brexit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...rexit-acid-test-new-era-democracy-free-trade/

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

They are, as are the EU. And I refer you to Dan’s posts about what’s going on Civil Service to civil service (and Dan knows his stuff). Half the food industry has told the government it won’t take part in any of the many consultations going in because they are too busy planning for a no deal. WTO is meant to be the backstop for where there are no trade treaties. Attempts to reform WTO started in 2001 (the Doha round) stalled in 2008 and have made no progress since then. It really is the place of last resort. So yes, we should read and understand the WTO option.

Did you hear Ken Clarke talking about trade to May today? I laughed out loud, in a kind of ironic, twisted way.

While WTO does not technically require a hard border, it does require you to protect the integrity of your ‘single market’, which amounts to the same thing. Neither the UK or EU single markets have integrity, unless the UK unilaterally follows all EU regulations and standards and does not impose tariffs. And the EU does not impose tariffs.

Luckily I don’t expect you to respond to direct questions, as you never do, I would be very frustrated. But let’s try....given the choice between not being in the Customs Union and NI leaving the UK what would you take?

The answer to your question is, I don't want to be in the Customs Union, and although I'm not looking for NI to leave the UK, if they did it with the consent of the people (I assume you're not suggesting we expel them for expediency) than so be it.

On the border issue - if it is agreed between the EU and the UK as part of a managed no deal, that they have the same, or perhaps no tariffs, pending signing of a free trade agreement, then that's fine. The problem for the EU comes when we are talking, not about goods, but people. The UK can be relaxed about who comes across from Ireland, because Ireland isn't in Schengen. But for the EU, they don't know who is coming into their territory from the UK. I think that's why they would insist on a hard border.

 

[sb_73]

Sb do you think there will be a no deal/Mays deal or something else?

Honestly Ellers I have no idea. Until recently I had assumed some kind of deal would be done, but I think it’s drifting away. I’ve said on here that, even though I wanted us to stay in, we should have been planning for a complete split since June 2016, it would have hurt but it would have been manageable and oddly less divisive for the country. We would have paid the EU something for an amicable split, and got on to the real business. But essentially we have wasted 2.5 years going round in circles. It’s not so much the final outcome that worries me, it’s the chaos underway at the moment with no end in sight, and the fact that the whole Irish thing is a set of logical contradictions which no one has attempted to address.

A (hopefully brief and minor) global recession is starting up. Brexit will make it worse for us, though it will be hard to tell what is a global problem and what is a Brexit problem. The markets, which I loathe with a passion, will kill us, unless there is somewhere weaker to kill. And there are plenty of candidates out there.

On one level I don’t give a toss, it’s just politics. But politics is about to move into the real economic and social world, real people, real lives.

I’m off to Dallas for work tomorrow and then on to Indianapolis next week. I’ll report back on how ****ty the Yanks feel about everything.

 

[sb_73]

The answer to your question is, I don't want to be in the Customs Union, and although I'm not looking for NI to leave the UK, if they did it with the consent of the people (I assume you're not suggesting we expel them for expediency) than so be it.

On the border issue - if it is agreed between the EU and the UK as part of a managed no deal, that they have the same, or perhaps no tariffs, pending signing of a free trade agreement, then that's fine. The problem for the EU comes when we are talking, not about goods, but people. The UK can be relaxed about who comes across from Ireland, because Ireland isn't in Schengen. But for the EU, they don't know who is coming into their territory from the UK. I think that's why they would insist on a hard border.

Cheers, your first paragraph works for you, but can’t for the Conservative and Unionist Party, unless they change their ideology.

As for immigration, it’s already a recognised, albeit costly, route for non EU illegal migrants
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...immigrants-smuggled-Britain-Irish-border.html
(Same stuff on the BBC news website). If we leave a border with no checks it remains an open door.