Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

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[bobmid]

Bob, we pay circa £8 billion per annum to the EU. Tusk is in a small cabal of incredibly powerful men in the EU. He has influence over how much we pay and what it is spent on. Huge amounts have been paid on luxurious buildings on the Continent. That's largely our money, since we are the biggest payer after Germany. Huge amounts have been paid to Eastern Europe to enhance state facilities. That's our money in part. Now huge amounts are being paid to Greece Italy and Spain. Tusk has huge influence on these policy decisions.

This is taken from the "14 most powerful EU budget players" I posted to Bobby:


10. Donald Tusk

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Role: European Council president
Affiliation: European People's Party
Nationality: Polish

Donald Tusk has often performed the task of bridging east and west and north and south in the European Council. Some efforts (the Greek bailouts) have been more successful than others (the EU’s migration quota policy). Tusk will have to work his magic again, while having skin in the budget game. The former Polish prime minister may not be running for a third term as European Council president, but he could be angling for another run at high office back home. If he allows himself to be portrayed as cutting funds for Poland, he will hand his domestic political foes a
gift. On the other hand, there’s not a lot of spare cash in the EU bank thanks to Brexit: Something’s got to give

That's more like the goldy I know. An educated response unlike that Boris Ellers propaganda bloke who couldn't debate to save his life.

 

[bobmid]

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How does tusk effect my use of a lightbulb ellers? That's another question you wont be able to answer. Infact I best not ask you anymore, you're still attempting to negotiate with yourself an answer to the first one ha ha

 

[bobmid]

Some disruption, indeed.

We are going to leave on 29th March with no deal in place with the EU, we will lose the 50 or 60 trade deals that we currently have with third-party nations via the EU, and we will become just about the only nation in the world that trades wholly on WTO terms (if they let us, that is). But this is all good because we will be free to make our own deals. Just as well our negotiators are as skilled and nimble as they have recently proved themselves to be.

Yep it's all looking really good for our country. My lad will be 63 before he sees any benefits.....if any at all. Isn't it ironic how anyone who voted remain would probably take May's deal over a no deal and yet anyone who voted leave would have been better having Corbyn running the show.

 

[bobmid]

I'm resigned to backing Mrs May now, just so the hard line leavers don't ruin the country.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

That's more like the goldy I know. An educated response unlike that Boris Ellers propaganda bloke who couldn't debate to save his life.

I always think you and Ellers debate away well, Bob (with the odd cross word between friends!)

 

[bobmid]

I always think you and Ellers debate away well, Bob (with the odd cross word between friends!)

Me and ellers would actually get on like a house on fire if we met! Started by a lightbulb

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Me and ellers would actually get on like a house on fire if we met! Started by a lightbulb

Agreed

 

[QPR Oslo]

Some disruption, indeed.

We are going to leave on 29th March with no deal in place with the EU, we will lose the 50 or 60 trade deals that we currently have with third-party nations via the EU, and we will become just about the only nation in the world that trades wholly on WTO terms (if they let us, that is). But this is all good because we will be free to make our own deals. Just as well our negotiators are as skilled and nimble as they have recently proved themselves to be.

Yes, Mr Tusk got it right, though he should have left out the religious conotation.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

What is it you want me to answer?

PS No need to write an essay. If you could keep it brief, twitter style, it would be appreciated

Did you answer Raving? If so I must have missed it. Last I saw you claimed it was too long for you to go through even though you had penned half of the posts. Is that brief enough and to the point for you? If I were on Twitter I'd write in the sort of soundbites some on here can deal with. I thought you were better than that. I'm not going to pander those who do not read past headlines and soundbites.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

They are negotiated by unelected bureaucrats but all member states will have their say, depending on their commercial interests

Deals are being put in place now. Quite a few countries are holding off at present, to see what kind of Brexit is finalised (they don't want to waste their time, if the UK is prevented from dealing with them due to us staying in the EU's custom's union.). For the others, I can't give you a time scale but when any country comes out of an organisation like the EU, there will be some disruption due to transition.

Who are the elected bureaucrats who are participating on our behalf in the negotiations with the EU over Brexit. We know for certain that it is not May, or the Brexit secretary from time to time who are drafting the text of the proposed agreement. Nor is it any of the ERG or Boris Johnson. He's far too busy jogging round the corner into view whenever the opportunity arises

 

[BobbyD]

Did you answer Raving? If so I must have missed it. Last I saw you claimed it was too long for you to go through even though you had penned half of the posts. Is that brief enough and to the point for you? If I were on Twitter I'd write in the sort of soundbites some on here can deal with. I thought you were better than that. I'm not going to pander those who do not read past headlines and soundbites.

Not sure there's much to debate with raving. Goldy doesnt like major. Raving doesnt think he was too bad and was misrepresented.

The only thing i would probably hand to raving (not that i know what happened) is that goldy has given all the **** to major and all the good stuff to someone who worked for major.

Believe we see something similar with hated football managers

 

[sb_73]

Bob, we pay circa £8 billion per annum to the EU. Tusk is in a small cabal of incredibly powerful men in the EU. He has influence over how much we pay and what it is spent on. Huge amounts have been paid on luxurious buildings on the Continent. That's largely our money, since we are the biggest payer after Germany. Huge amounts have been paid to Eastern Europe to enhance state facilities. That's our money in part. Now huge amounts are being paid to Greece Italy and Spain. Tusk has huge influence on these policy decisions.

This is taken from the "14 most powerful EU budget players" I posted to Bobby:


10. Donald Tusk

You must log in or register to see images

Role: European Council president
Affiliation: European People's Party
Nationality: Polish

Donald Tusk has often performed the task of bridging east and west and north and south in the European Council. Some efforts (the Greek bailouts) have been more successful than others (the EU’s migration quota policy). Tusk will have to work his magic again, while having skin in the budget game. The former Polish prime minister may not be running for a third term as European Council president, but he could be angling for another run at high office back home. If he allows himself to be portrayed as cutting funds for Poland, he will hand his domestic political foes a
gift. On the other hand, there’s not a lot of spare cash in the EU bank thanks to Brexit: Something’s got to give

Fact check. We contribute 13.45% of the EU budget, France pays over 16% and Germany 19%. So we are not second biggest contributor, and with that % spending on buildings in the EU would never be with ‘largely our money’.

Of course, from your perspective the point you make would still resonate - we shouldn’t contribute to the development of infrastructure in other countries. Fair enough, and if you believe this you certainly wouldn’t want us to be in the EU. I take another view, as you know, levelling up of economies actually expands the markets for goods and services.

It’s interesting the renewed level of attacks on the idea and actuality of the EU which are bursting out all over the place. I thought the Leavers won this argument two and a half years ago, and would now be focusing on the unicorn populated sunlit uplands of an EU free future. I can only assume that they are lacking self confidence, and/or ideas about what that future really looks like, and are more comfortable on the old ground of droning on about ‘fat cat bureaucrats’, ‘EU bullies’, peddling old and discredited stories about light bulbs and bananas etc etc. Move on, tell us about what we have to look forward to in the Brave New World.

 

[kiwiqpr]

Calls For Naz Shah And Anna Soubry To RESIGN As Expenses Revealed

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People are calling for Conservative MP, Anna Soubry and Labour MP, Naz Shah to resign after finding out how much their expenses were.
mpsexpenses.info shows how much each MP has claimed in expenses and even allows you to see individual costs, such as coffee machines (this was one of Diane Abbott’s expenses).
Despite earning around £77,000 a year, MPs still claim on average tens of thousands of pounds after staff and travel costs.
Remain and second vote campaigner, Anna Soubry claimed in total between 1 Oct 2017 — 30 Sep 2018 an eye-watering £198,820.76.

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Minus the staff and travel costs, which totalled £154,999, Mrs Soubry claimed an astonishing £43,821 of taxpayers money in expenses.

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You’d imagine that a Conservative MP would be far less enthusiastic to receiving government handouts. Jacob Rees-Mogg, for example, has led by example and only claimed £900 after staff and travel costs. Both Rees-Mogg and Soubry are backbench MPs.
Moving onto Labour MP for Bradford, Naz Shah.
Mrs Shah claimed in total from 1st October 2017 and 30th September 2018 £210,586.71. £11,766 more than Anna Soubry.

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If we take away the travel costs and staff costs which total £155,529 we are left with £55,057 in additional expense claims!
Once again, far higher than Jacob Rees-Mogg’s £900 and Soubry’s £43,000.

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Mrs Shah claimed more than double the average national wage in expenses excluding travel and staff! Unbelievable!
I’d love to be able to claim my travel costs I think the whole country would? So why on earth do these MPs get to? Surely NHS nurses and doctors should be able to claim back their costs of getting to work

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[bobmid]

Fact check. We contribute 13.45% of the EU budget, France pays over 16% and Germany 19%. So we are not second biggest contributor, and with that % spending on buildings in the EU would never be with ‘largely our money’.

Of course, from your perspective the point you make would still resonate - we shouldn’t contribute to the development of infrastructure in other countries. Fair enough, and if you believe this you certainly wouldn’t want us to be in the EU. I take another view, as you know, levelling up of economies actually expands the markets for goods and services.

It’s interesting the renewed level of attacks on the idea and actuality of the EU which are bursting out all over the place. I thought the Leavers won this argument two and a half years ago, and would now be focusing on the unicorn populated sunlit uplands of an EU free future. I can only assume that they are lacking self confidence, and/or ideas about what that future really looks like, and are more comfortable on the old ground of droning on about ‘fat cat bureaucrats’, ‘EU bullies’, peddling old and discredited stories about light bulbs and bananas etc etc. Move on, tell us about what we have to look forward to in the Brave New World.

Very good post. Always enjoy reading facts and not opinions.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Did you answer Raving? If so I must have missed it. Last I saw you claimed it was too long for you to go through even though you had penned half of the posts. Is that brief enough and to the point for you? If I were on Twitter I'd write in the sort of soundbites some on here can deal with. I thought you were better than that. I'm not going to pander those who do not read past headlines and soundbites.

Sorry, Yorkshire, but life is too short to read and respond to long rants. If Raving has the discipline to set out succinctly the points he wants to make - as I have done to him - then I'll respond. If not, faced with a page giving the history of the world, my eyes glaze over and I move on

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Who are the elected bureaucrats who are participating on our behalf in the negotiations with the EU over Brexit. We know for certain that it is not May, or the Brexit secretary from time to time who are drafting the text of the proposed agreement. Nor is it any of the ERG or Boris Johnson. He's far too busy jogging round the corner into view whenever the opportunity arises

In our case, some of the negotiations are conducted by an elected representitive (presently Stephen Barclay who is off to see Barnier on Monday) and some are conducted by unelected representitives( civil servants like Ollie Robbins).

 

[kiwiqpr]

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Life in Donald Tusk's EU. Hell.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Fact check. We contribute 13.45% of the EU budget, France pays over 16% and Germany 19%. So we are not second biggest contributor, and with that % spending on buildings in the EU would never be with ‘largely our money’.

Of course, from your perspective the point you make would still resonate - we shouldn’t contribute to the development of infrastructure in other countries. Fair enough, and if you believe this you certainly wouldn’t want us to be in the EU. I take another view, as you know, levelling up of economies actually expands the markets for goods and services.

It’s interesting the renewed level of attacks on the idea and actuality of the EU which are bursting out all over the place. I thought the Leavers won this argument two and a half years ago, and would now be focusing on the unicorn populated sunlit uplands of an EU free future. I can only assume that they are lacking self confidence, and/or ideas about what that future really looks like, and are more comfortable on the old ground of droning on about ‘fat cat bureaucrats’, ‘EU bullies’, peddling old and discredited stories about light bulbs and bananas etc etc. Move on, tell us about what we have to look forward to in the Brave New World.

UK Contribution - Yes, Stan, correction agreed. I hadn't applied the rebate. We've been the third largest contributor over the last few years.

I suspect the levelling up by the EU has more to do with political than commercial factors - the EU doesn't want the ex Eastern Bloc countries sliding back to Russia. The commercial point is fine, but for the UK, the greatest increase in our trade is happening outside the EU. That may not be the case for Germany and France. We need our money to go where it best suits our tailored interests.

The battle for Brexit has not been won until we're out. If you want to stop Brexiteers from reacting, may be someone could tell Mr Tusk that telling UK politician to go to hell will not get a positive response. It's unseemly that such a senior politician engages in such name calling. I haven't heard similar from any UK politician - the media sure, but that's the nature of that beast. There are still those too, the bad losers, who want another referendum to see if they can get a better result. Brexiteers are always alert to them.

As far as I'm concerned, once we're out, I'm hoping to pay a lot less attention to anything to do with the EU. Trade talks will commence and no doubt labour on, but we can get on with trade deals ex-Europe (as long as we don't stay in the Custom's Union)

PS Has Rangercol left us? Hope not