Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Should we all bow to you because your Irish? My builder was Irish and knew nothing about politics.

And by the way, this comment is condescending and should be beneath you.

Sorry nuts but your first comment was beneath you. By the way that was a serious comment regarding my builder and he did a top job.
I gave some valid points which you ignored and made it sound as it was beneath you to answer. If there is a no deal the Irish PM will be running around trying to sort something. If people think different they are deluded especially with the trade/money involved.
Remember Ireland has had referendum and voted to get out of the EU...I don't remember there being a problem with the border then but maybe I missed the news. Ireland had to have a second vote and decided to stay... where have I heard that before?
As I said if you want to answer my question then answer it but don't just say it's s22t without giving an answer especially after I was responding to your post.

 

[Steelmonkey]

Correct. The tech solutions don't exist. See in depth piece here:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/irish-border-brexit-tech

Here's how they manage it on the border between Russia and Estonia....

Click, Beyond Borders: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bkfxcx via @bbciplayer


Bit of infrastrucure to build, but it is possible

 

[sb_73]

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****ing hell, the new editor of the Mail has changed its tone. Bet that reasonable tone caused a few strokes amongst the gammon and blue rinse set.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Here's how they manage it on the border between Russia and Estonia....

Click, Beyond Borders: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bkfxcx via @bbciplayer


Bit of infrastrucure to build, but it is possible

Will take a look. I thought there was a lot of tension between Russia / Estonia so interested to see how they manage it.

 

[Stroller]

Newsnight just consisted of a parade of Tories arguing amongst themselves. A perfect portrayal of the Brexit nightmare. What a shower of ****.

 

[ELLERS]

Newsnight just consisted of a parade of Tories arguing amongst themselves. A perfect portrayal of the Brexit nightmare. What a shower of ****.

This week is better

 

[Stroller]

This week is better

Oh yeah, Neil will probably have the Spice Girls on to talk about how Brexit will affect their upcoming tour.

 

[ELLERS]

Oh yeah, Neil will probably have the Spice Girls on to talk about how Brexit will affect their upcoming tour.

Come on stroller it's politics with a bit of fun. I really enjoy 'Porthole' Portillo. He really should have been Tory leader although after his defeat in 97 to Twigg he changed and went out on a life discovery. I think he is a better person now.

 

[Stroller]

Come on stroller it's politics with a bit of fun. I really enjoy 'Porthole' Portillo. He really should have been Tory leader although after his defeat in 97 to Twigg he changed and went out on a life discovery. I think he is a better person now.

I prefer serious political programmes. This Week used to be quite good, but its 'humour' injection has devalued it. And the weekly guest promoting their album/book/tour is plain embarrassing.

 

[DT’s Socks]

PS
I have not really spoke about the Irish border before so your 'once again' line is wrong.

Exactly you were too busy calling the EU disgusting names and reposting crap

Self obsessed blinkered

No understanding of the Irish border
No solutions

I have many European friends in the Cavan area
I hold my head in shame being English

 

[DT’s Socks]

Should we all bow to you because your Irish? My builder was Irish and knew nothing about politics.
All you have done is sat on some sort of high importance telling me I talk crap yet you can't give a decent response?
This was taken from the BBC
The Republic of Ireland is the fifth biggest customer for UK exports. The UK is the second biggest customer for Irish exports. You would have thought the Irish PM would have done a bit more to solve the problem.
Maybe the border thing will not be an issue in a no deal.

Jesus what a idiot

 

[kiwiqpr]

so will trucks heading to europe from ireland now have to go through 3 sets of customs checks
once at the irish / uk border
again before they get on a ferry
and again before they get on a ferry heading to france

plus any other checks once they have gotten off the ferries
what percentage of trucks/containers are checked now

 

[Sooperhoop]

so will trucks heading to europe from ireland now have to go through 3 sets of customs checks
once at the irish / uk border
again before they get on a ferry
and again before they get on a ferry heading to france

plus any other checks once they have gotten off the ferries
what percentage of trucks/containers are checked now

They can always get a ferry straight to France, help reduce pollution on our roads...

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

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Isn't there a vacancy at Loftus Road?

 

[QPRNUTS]

Sorry nuts but your first comment was beneath you. By the way that was a serious comment regarding my builder and he did a top job.
I gave some valid points which you ignored and made it sound as it was beneath you to answer. If there is a no deal the Irish PM will be running around trying to sort something. If people think different they are deluded especially with the trade/money involved.
Remember Ireland has had referendum and voted to get out of the EU...I don't remember there being a problem with the border then but maybe I missed the news. Ireland had to have a second vote and decided to stay... where have I heard that before?
As I said if you want to answer my question then answer it but don't just say it's s22t without giving an answer especially after I was responding to your post.

Ellers

My dear god. Your knowledge is shocking but you do tell a good fairytale. Ireland never voted to leave the EU, we just rejected their treaties, twice in fact. Know your facts.

Let me make this clear, a no deal or hard border would have unimaginable financial, political and social problems here. It would set us back 10-15 years and possibly destroy the peace agreement. It’s why the Irish Government (and hence the EU) have insisted on the backstop. Several people on your side of the pond just don’t get the seriousness of the situation here in Ireland. And honestly, why should they when they’re negotiating for their future. I get it.
Let me also make it clear I fully understand why the majority of people in the UK voted for Brexit. The majority of Irish see themselves as European, I do not. I personally think the EU has run its course. I’d love to see Ireland leaving too and joining a new Customs Union with the UK and the US, both of whom our tiny country is dependent upon for trade.
I get Brexit, but have struggled to understand why so many British people thought they could simply bend the rules and fudge the NI border issue. The EU was never going to allow that. The NI issue was always going to be the stumbling block. You can’t have free trade and no hard border here. Its incompatible.

I genuinely believe this agreement was clever. Negotiations and subsequent agreements generally result in both sides having to give a little. The UK was always going to have to give a little. May (or anybody else) could never deliver the perfect Brexit because of the backstop. Surely people can see this. The EU (despite what some on here think) were perfectly in their rights to insist that their rules (which the UK previously adhered to) could and would not be changed. Why all the EU bashing for insisting on this? Were they not entitled to negotiate too?
I genuinely fear a NO deal now.

 

[QPRNUTS]

so will trucks heading to europe from ireland now have to go through 3 sets of customs checks
once at the irish / uk border
again before they get on a ferry
and again before they get on a ferry heading to france

plus any other checks once they have gotten off the ferries
what percentage of trucks/containers are checked now

Most transport from Ireland to the EU is via France.
But every truck from the UK heading to the EU will now have an interesting journey.

 

[sb_73]

I prefer serious political programmes. This Week used to be quite good, but it's 'humour' injection has devalued it. And the weekly guest promoting their album/book/tour is plain embarrassing.

I caught the last few minutes of it last night. I agree, it’s collapsed into some kind of student cabaret performance, but it’s still marginally more bearable than Question Time. Neill did make one very good point yesterday, pointing out that of all the things that the EU has done, many of which have been dodgy at best - the €, Schengen, agriculture and fisheries policies - the Customs Union and Single Market have been outstanding successes, and that it is entirely understandable that they will not allow anything to happen that will undermine the coherency of these systems.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

I’ve sat back for the last four months and read a lot of dribble by several posters on here regarding Brexit. Others have posted some excellent posts. I agree with you Bob. In my opinion it was Britain’s responsibility to solve this problem.

My last post 4 months ago was that I thought the UK was making a mess of this. I stand by my comment. Your PM was never going to be able to deliver the Brexit that was voted on. Never. You can’t have the best of both worlds.
9 DUP votes are dictating how Britain has had to negotiate. How ridiculous is that!!!
The two positions of no border in Northern Ireland and Britain being able to negotiate free trade agreements are incompatible. Why can’t people understand that.

Mmmmm. Let me think about. Done.

Because we're British? Once we'd named our terms, they seriousty expected the Europeans to capitulate on day one. Our principles clearly trumped theirs and we expected them to recognise from the outset that we had a better vision. Oh and let's not forget. The French are well-known for running away from a battle. It is that realisation which explains the behaviour of the true visionaries. They want a fall guy in charge to take the flak.

They wanted Cameron to stay in charge and oversee it. Then split their vote up horrendously because of course Liam Weasel knows exactly what's needed and how to deliver it, Andrea (who the hell is she and where did she come from) Leadsom believed in her own infallibility. Boris got hopelessly outmanoeuvred on day 1 (leader of the nation, seriously?) and Gove paid the ultimate price for his treachery, IDS Had his go in charge and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and has more than enough time marshalling his own sel-defences as the man behind Universal Credit. That left Davis and JRM. The former wanted to be leader years ago and lost to the Eton schoolboy. His one chance at redemption came during his wasted stint as Brexit secretary and JRM has been too busy grooming martyrs to do the work for him and rabble rousing from the side lines. They therefore selected Theresa May forgetting that her greatest , dare I say, only 'virtues' are that she can be stubborn and stick to her way however flawed it might be.

None of them want another go because they too know that even if they can sell their own (58th) variety of Brexit to their own supporters, they will never get it past Parliament and the rest of the country.

 

[QPRNUTS]

Mmmmm. Let me think about. Done.

Because we're British? Once we'd named our terms, they seriousty expected the Europeans to capitulate on day one. Our principles clearly trumped theirs and we expected them to recognise from the outset that we had a better vision. Oh and let's not forget. The French are well-known for running away from a battle. It is that realisation which explains the behaviour of the true visionaries. They want a fall guy in charge to take the flak.

They wanted Cameron to stay in charge and oversee it. Then split their vote up horrendously because of course Liam Weasel knows exactly what's needed and how to deliver it, Andrea (who the hell is she and where did she come from) Leadsom believed in her own infallibility. Boris got hopelessly outmanoeuvred on day 1 (leader of the nation, seriously?) and Gove paid the ultimate price for his treachery, IDS Had his go in charge and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and has more than enough time marshalling his own sel-defences as the man behind Universal Credit. That left Davis and JRM. The former wanted to be leader years ago and lost to the Eton schoolboy. His one chance at redemption came during his wasted stint as Brexit secretary and JRM has been too busy grooming martyrs to do the work for him and rabble rousing from the side lines. They therefore selected Theresa May forgetting that her greatest , dare I say, only 'virtues' are that she can be stubborn and stick to her way however flawed it might be.

None of them want another go because they too know that even if they can sell their own (58th) variety of Brexit to their own supporters, they will never get it past Parliament and the rest of the country.

I’ve tried my best to understand what exactly is happening inside the political system on your side of the pond......but I’ve given up.

 

[ELLERS]

Ellers

My dear god. Your knowledge is shocking but you do tell a good fairytale. Ireland never voted to leave the EU, we just rejected their treaties, twice in fact. Know your facts.

Let me make this clear, a no deal or hard border would have unimaginable financial, political and social problems here. It would set us back 10-15 years and possibly destroy the peace agreement. It’s why the Irish Government (and hence the EU) have insisted on the backstop. Several people on your side of the pond just don’t get the seriousness of the situation here in Ireland. And honestly, why should they when they’re negotiating for their future. I get it.
Let me also make it clear I fully understand why the majority of people in the UK voted for Brexit. The majority of Irish see themselves as European, I do not. I personally think the EU has run its course. I’d love to see Ireland leaving too and joining a new Customs Union with the UK and the US, both of whom our tiny country is dependent upon for trade.
I get Brexit, but have struggled to understand why so many British people thought they could simply bend the rules and fudge the NI border issue. The EU was never going to allow that. The NI issue was always going to be the stumbling block. You can’t have free trade and no hard border here. Its incompatible.

I genuinely believe this agreement was clever. Negotiations and subsequent agreements generally result in both sides having to give a little. The UK was always going to have to give a little. May (or anybody else) could never deliver the perfect Brexit because of the backstop. Surely people can see this. The EU (despite what some on here think) were perfectly in their rights to insist that their rules (which the UK previously adhered to) could and would not be changed. Why all the EU bashing for insisting on this? Were they not entitled to negotiate too?
I genuinely fear a NO deal now.

Hooray a decent response at last. What I said about leaving was wrong however I did know it was a vote on the treaty. I reckon I had a blond moment.
As for the social problems (now I maybe wrong) but surely the past troubles ended 23 years ago..Have people not moved on? Would people start bombings if a few cameras or checks on lorries happened? To be honest if the answer is 'yes', then I would not want to live in that sort of society and glad I live here.
As for Ireland and your veiws on the EU...You followed us in so why not follow us out? Are we not your biggest trade partner?