Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Staines R's said:
Bit of both really :).
(Please don’t get paranoid with the use of ‘again’....wasn’t aimed directly at you or anyone here, just followed on from a previous post)
Personally I’m totally against a ‘New European Army’ as I think the money (billions I would estimate) would be better off being spent on helping the poor and needy of Europe than arming for war....but hey ho, that’s just me being simplistic again.

V for Vendetta......a classic ;)
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Paranoia, who’s saying I’m paranoid? You’re all out to get me, I know, never giving me credit where it’s due, never apologising in a mature way when I’m proved right. Infamy, infamy, you’ve all got it in for me!

Forgive me while I am a bit mischievous.... wasting billions on a European army (by the way, it’s only Macron, the Germans have already kicked it into the ‘perhaps in the future’ bin), or indeed any **** decisions that make life worse for people will only bring the revolution closer. People only revolt when they are truly miserable, so revolutionaries should be doing everything they can to ramp up the misery. Helping the poor and needy will only delay the day of reckoning! True proponents of class war will be voting for crypto fascists, not helping people, you ain’t going to change the world by making it tolerable. It’s only us bourgeois liberals who do lilly livered stuff like that (purely in our own interests of course). Welcome to the middle class Stainsey!

Hoop-Leif said:
Has Trump got 6 years to go?

Since when?
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Highly likely sadly. He’s just got the best mid term election results for a first term president since Reagan. Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama were all smashed at the same stage and they all got re-elected. Hopefully the new House of Representatives will make his life such a misery he just walks away.
 
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danishqp said:
But what would be wrong with an EU army?
We have sent on many occaisions "independant" forces to same locations/war zones, where the differences in quality of equipment and preparation of these, has led to very great and real logistics and capability issues, directly consequential to "allied" forces.
Had a Dept. from 2008 - 2011 that was directly responsible for supply to the Norwegian and Danish troops in Afghanistan, visited the Camp Bastian compound and let's just say that ALL European allies there had "step up potentials".

The Brits for example had completely different Artillery MM sizes - often provided by obsolete companies, machinery that was no longer in production and unable to share or loan from other friendly armies.
The "armoured" tanks issue is already well known.
Often, the ordering rationale for consumables by the Norwegains and Danes was questioned - and often it was over ordered taking into account the "loaning" that would go out to the Brits especially.
The simple procurement, logistics and operational efficiency improvements would be daunting.

So again, what would be wrong with the development of an EU army?
Trump has another 6 years to go - suggest we get a move on, wouldn't you?
Or do you prefer your politicos to be always at the beck and call of our "special relationship"?
Oh, and suggest that this would be something half decent to sign up to - whether in or out of EU - or do you accept it OK for our boys to come back in body bags due to a lack of intelligent use of budgets, poor project planners, poor purchasing and Technical Depts? Note, not one of those Depts. are in the firing line!!
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We have seen how the EU works... No thanks. Nato is the best solution and all EU member states need to do is pay the 2%. God forbid if we had to rely on France or Italy during a fight.<doh> Macron is an idiot and will be gone at the end of his term. Le Pen is more popular than him now. <yikes>
 
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sb_73 said:
Paranoia, who’s saying I’m paranoid? You’re all out to get me, I know, never giving me credit where it’s due, never apologising in a mature way when I’m proved right. Infamy, infamy, you’ve all got it in for me!

Forgive me while I am a bit mischievous.... wasting billions on a European army (by the way, it’s only Macron, the Germans have already kicked it into the ‘perhaps in the future’ bin), or indeed any **** decisions that make life worse for people will only bring the revolution closer. People only revolt when they are truly miserable, so revolutionaries should be doing everything they can to ramp up the misery. Helping the poor and needy will only delay the day of reckoning! True proponents of class war will be voting for crypto fascists, not helping people, you ain’t going to change the world by making it tolerable. It’s only us bourgeois liberals who do lilly livered stuff like that (purely in our own interests of course). Welcome to the middle class Stainsey!.
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That post actually had me giggling like a little school girl :).

I will now rethink my class warrior attitudes, eat smelly cheese, drink port and read books who’s authors name I can’t pronounce.....a proud middle class bourgeois from now on :)
 
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Staines R's said:
That post actually had me giggling like a little school girl :).

I will now rethink my class warrior attitudes, eat smelly cheese, drink port and read books who’s authors name I can’t pronounce.....a proud middle class bourgeois from now on :)
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Of course, you might not be (aspiring) middle class, you might just be a nice bloke, who wants to help people who are suffering now rather than have a bloody revolution in the vain hope that it won’t end up just the same but with some different names at the top.

Pathetic, man up mate, sacrifice yourself and me for future generations! You might get a statue out of it.

For the record, sadly smelly cheese is largely forbidden to me as it’s very salty, and I can pronounce the names of all authors I read, when not pissed on vintage port.
 
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sb_73 said:
Of course, you might not be (aspiring) middle class, you might just be a nice bloke, who wants to help people who are suffering now rather than have a bloody revolution in the vain hope that it won’t end up just the same but with some different names at the top.

Pathetic, man up mate, sacrifice yourself and me for future generations! You might get a statue out of it.

For the record, sadly smelly cheese is largely forbidden to me as it’s very salty, and I can pronounce the names of all authors I read, when not pissed on vintage port.
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I’m thinking the best way to start is to have a 100% pay rise for those poor and needy NHS staff.....along with free coffee and donuts.....:).
I’ll have a statue outside St Tommy’s before you know it.
 
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sb_73 said:
Highly likely sadly. He’s just got the best mid term election results for a first term president since Reagan. Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama were all smashed at the same stage and they all got re-elected. Hopefully the new House of Representatives will make his life such a misery he just walks away.
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I don't think these mid-terms can be compared to those that have gone before. Trump's extremist behaviour has ensured that the polarity of opinions has become entrenched and that where previously supporters of the incumbent may have stayed at home, they actually turned out to vote for him. Of course, those opposing him were also more motivated to turn out, and they did too. But, like in the UK, not that many are changing sides. The Democrats were never going to take the Senate, but taking the House represents a victory for them (contrary to Trump's ridiculous spin). Trump lost the popular vote in the Presidential election and will have lost it here by a significantly greater margin.

Hopefully the next two years will see him impeached by the Democrat-led House or, as you say, maybe he will just lose the appetite to carry on.
 
ELLERS said:
We have seen how the EU works... No thanks. Nato is the best solution and all EU member states need to do is pay the 2%. God forbid if we had to rely on France or Italy during a fight.<doh> Macron is an idiot and will be gone at the end of his term. Le Pen is more popular than him now. <yikes>
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France I agree 50 years ago
Today they rank a lot higher than the UK IMO
If anyone studied the Current French military force then expect to be surprised!
 
ELLERS said:
'If anyone studied the Current French military force' <laugh> hang on.... <laugh>
The French are all show and no fight. Once again you are talking utter rubbish.
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Time to catch up my friend
UK forces are way behind the times starved of resources for the last 20 years and have been overtaken by many of the worlds military powers especially in Europe

The UK however still contributes well in part to weapons sales we can still make poisons it appears. Weapons Technology is still buzzing in the UK in collaboration of course with our European partners I fully expect that to continue

The British bulldog unfortunately is in reality a misinformed piece of recent history

Recruitment at all time low
UK government spending cuts on military
Then of course we have a new generation and the culture to go with that

Time to live in the present Ellers

We may do OK in a pub brawl on our turf but overseas away from the comforts of UK culture I don’t rate our current chances. I get my indicators direct from family most of which both male and female ex military don’t have very good accounts of their service time ... those still involved work now in Africa for European companies

If choose to believe and trust that we have a military power in the UK I would say you are really wrong
 
DT’s Socks said:
Time to catch up my friend
UK forces are way behind the times starved of resources for the last 20 years and have been overtaken by many of the worlds military powers especially in Europe

The UK however still contributes well in part to weapons sales we can still make poisons it appears. Weapons Technology is still buzzing in the UK in collaboration of course with our European partners I fully expect that to continue

The British bulldog unfortunately is in reality a misinformed piece of recent history

Recruitment at all time low
UK government spending cuts on military
Then of course we have a new generation and the culture to go with that

Time to live in the present Ellers

We may do OK in a pub brawl on our turf but overseas away from the comforts of UK culture I don’t rate our current chances. I get my indicators direct from family most of which both male and female ex military don’t have very good accounts of their service time ... those still involved work now in Africa for European companies

If choose to believe and trust that we have a military power in the UK I would say you are really wrong
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Once again your ill informed comments make you sound as silly as ever. Come oh great war commander of the French republic, tell us what recent military battles the French army has been in other than tagging along with our brave soldiers or the US? Maybe you could use Mali or Iraq? <laugh>

Amazes me in France at these ceremonies how there is no room on there jackets due to all those medals? <laugh> You get a medal in France for not retreating after 5 minutes. You really do talk rubbish.

As I have said I would not want the French or Italians protecting me. Give me a British soldier every time.
 
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ELLERS said:
Once again your ill informed comments make you sound as silly as ever. Come oh great war commander of the French republic, tell us what recent military battles the French army has been in other than tagging along with our brave soldiers or the US? Maybe you could use Mali or Iraq? <laugh>

Amazes me in France at these ceremonies how there is no room on there jackets due to all those medals? <laugh> You get a medal in France for not retreating after 5 minutes. You really do talk rubbish.

As I have said I would not want the French or Italians protecting me. Give me a British soldier every time.
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I’m afraid in this situation you’re dead as budget cuts now mean our army has been whittled down to 50 Free Tommy marchers volunteering to defend Dover.
 
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West WindsR said:
I’m afraid in this situation you’re dead as budget cuts now mean our army has been whittled down to 50 Free Tommy marchers volunteering to defend Dover.
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Watford, don't get confused with what DT was saying and my point. I said the EU wanted a Euro army, which it does. I then said that I wouldn't want the French and Italians protecting us. Which to be honest no one would. DT did his usual 'France is the best blah blah blah' rubbish. France may have more troops than us but it's always about Quality and not quantity. Iraq should tell us that. As for France, we do work very closely with them and they probably do have some good soldiers however history does tell us that they are not as good as the medals they wear. Our soldiers have been in the thick of battles in recent years and have the scars to prove it.
Anyway I won't listen to his rubbish. :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
ELLERS said:
Once again your ill informed comments make you sound as silly as ever. Come oh great war commander of the French republic, tell us what recent military battles the French army has been in other than tagging along with our brave soldiers or the US? Maybe you could use Mali or Iraq? <laugh>

Amazes me in France at these ceremonies how there is no room on there jackets due to all those medals? <laugh> You get a medal in France for not retreating after 5 minutes. You really do talk rubbish.

As I have said I would not want the French or Italians protecting me. Give me a British soldier every time.
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Yes I have heard that have you moved on from sailors? You are awful but I like you x
 
ELLERS said:
Watford, don't get confused with what DT was saying and my point. I said the EU wanted a Euro army, which it does. I then said that I wouldn't want the French and Italians protecting us. Which to be honest no one would. DT did his usual 'France is the best blah blah blah' rubbish. France may have more troops than us but it's always about Quality and not quantity. Iraq should tell us that. As for France, we do work very closely with them and they probably do have some good soldiers however history does tell us that they are not as good as the medals they wear. Our soldiers have been in the thick of battles in recent years and have the scars to prove it.
Anyway I won't listen to his rubbish. :emoticon-0148-yes:
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Serious point Ellers honestly the French are no push overs like we historically portray them
It also imo overlooks the work the resistance did last time the world had a set too

Our soldiers were in the thick of it no doubt heroes all when they got home they were forgotten having put their lives in the line for a bunch of lies

Authority throughout the French system from police up to military special forces is switched on imo
They get it done imo

Having a European army we can rent or learn from is very reassuring and well done for predicting it

Still it has to happen yet of course
 
bobmid said:
We can always call on the salvation army. Ruthless bastards
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They are ruthless bastards. A mate of my son was in a bit of trouble a few years back and ended up at a Salvation Army hostel while temporarily homeless. He was 18, and the place was designed for kids like him, they had their own rooms and everything, wasn’t a doss house/shelter, he paid part of the rent out of his minimum wage. They said they would sort out housing benefit for him so he could pay the rest. He stayed six weeks, and is now in a much better place in his life. 4 years later he gets a letter from a debt collecting company demanding £3,000 for unpaid rent for his six week stay plus interest. The Salvation Army never bothered to get this vulnerable kid his housing benefit and have sold on the alleged debt to glorified gangsters. Obviously he panicked as he doesn’t have anything like three grand to spare, despite working. Fortunately my lad brought his mate round here and we drafted a letter to the debt collectors making them a pathetically small offer to make this go away, and he hasn’t had a response for six months. My theory is that they won’t chase people who can put up a fight, too much hassle, so it’s the truly vulnerable who will fall into their clutches.

When this is sorted I will turn my full attention to the Salvation Army itself. One man against an army! Looking forward to it.
 
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