Off Topic The Politics Thread

[BobbyD]

Taking a theoretical, if Raheem Sterling, protesting against stop and search, kneels when the National Anthem is played, how will that be viewed and how much support would he garner? There are many better ways to make a protest and win support

However he did it, in a polarised nation as the states he was always going to be hated. The ones who hate him have spun it into an anti american thing which is why he gets criticised for it and why Tebow who did exactly the same thing didn't.

However, what Kaepernick did has created huge traction to the cause and a lot of black american sportspeople are behind and have come out and have the media attention.

You only need to look at the hysterical reaction to Nike using Kaepernick.

Tbh, UK is on the path to becoming like the States because of Brexit in terms of polarising views and fake news.

 

[BobbyD]

Taking a theoretical, if Raheem Sterling, protesting against stop and search, kneels when the National Anthem is played at the next England game, how will that be viewed and how much support would he garner? There are many better ways to make a protest and win support

You only need to see what Sterling does to see how it's all down to a narrative.

He's a little dick but he shags loads of birds (like others), gets criticised. He buys loads of **** for his mum, he's showing off. He shops at primark (or whatever he was) he's a skank. He's got a tattoo of a gun to his leg, shoot the little ****er.

People will hate what they hate. If Harry Kane protested at dribbling disabilities during the national anthem, i bet he wouldn't get the abuse that sterling would get for the same.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

You only need to see what Sterling does to see how it's all down to a narrative.

He's a little dick but he shags loads of birds (like others), gets criticised. He buys loads of **** for his mum, he's showing off. He shops at primark (or whatever he was) he's a skank. He's got a tattoo of a gun to his leg, shoot the little ****er.

People will hate what they hate. If Harry Kane protested at dribbling disabilities during the national anthem, i bet he wouldn't get the abuse that sterling would get for the same.

If Kane knelt during the National Anthem, it would debase him in the eyes of many possibly permanently. Just the same as the Sterling example. Whereas if he led a protest outside Parliament or something similar for something he believed in, he would probably earn respect.

 

[BobbyD]

If Kane knelt during the National Anthem, it would debase him in the eyes of many possibly permanently. Just the same as the Sterling example. Whereas if he led a protest outside Parliament or something similar for something he believed in, he would probably earn respect.

I guess we'll have to disagree on this point then.

If Harry had stuck his middle finger up to the Union jack i'd agree with you .

Anyway, whereas the cynic in my might have thought Kaepernick was doing this for publicity, i think i can give him the benefit of the doubt since he did this whilst he was a relatively young and very promising quarterback and has effectively had his career sidetracked because of his protests and i think history will remember him well for it.

 

[sb_73]

You're commenting on the cause, I was focusing on the means of protest. If he wants to have a go at Trump, fly a balloon, wear a T shirt with "Trump sucks" on it, refuse to shake his hand, or lead a protest outside the US Supreme Court. I just don't see he's going to make a lot of allies by seeming to disrespect the American flag. Particularly given that Americans are known to be highly patriotic. Strikes me as dumb (in their words).

He’s not protesting against Trump specifically though is he? Trump just jumped in with his usual level of ignorance. He’s protesting about trigger happy police. And as an athlete with a built in national audience what better place to make a point than during a TV broadcast? Maximum exposure. He was never going to convert bigots anyway.

Regarding your Sterling hypothetical he will certainly raise the profile of the issue, maybe get a few people thinking about it, and the people who dislike it would be those who would never change their minds anyway. Hopefully our Prime Minister would not respond in the same crass and ignorant way that the US President did.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

He’s not protesting against Trump specifically though is he? Trump just jumped in with his usual level of ignorance. He’s protesting about trigger happy police. And as an athlete with a built in national audience what better place to make a point than during a TV broadcast? Maximum exposure. He was never going to convert bigots anyway.

Regarding your Sterling hypothetical he will certainly raise the profile of the issue, maybe get a few people thinking about it, and the people who dislike it would be those who would never change their minds anyway. Hopefully our Prime Minister would not respond in the same crass and ignorant way that the US President did.

I'd say doing anything negative to the national flag or the anthem can alienate people that might otherwise have been sympathetic. That's just my view. I may be wrong.

 

[sb_73]

I'd say doing anything negative to the national flag or the anthem can alienate people that might otherwise have been sympathetic. That's just my view. I may be wrong.

Well, I might be wrong too, but people keen to take offence over a bit of cloth or a song rather than try to understand why someone would use them to make a point are probably already alienated from reality.

 

[rangercol]

Well, I might be wrong too, but people keen to take offence over a bit of cloth or a song rather than try to understand why someone would use them to make a point are probably already alienated from reality.

It's symbolic surely? A bit of cloth?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Well, I might be wrong too, but people keen to take offence over a bit of cloth or a song rather than try to understand why someone would use them to make a point are probably already alienated from reality.

Through history, patriots have died to protect that piece of cloth, including against the British. Part of the July 4 celebrations is that Americans have the freedom to fly it.

 

[sb_73]

It's symbolic surely? A bit of cloth?

Through history, patriots have died to protect that piece of cloth, including against the British. Part of the July 4 celebrations is that Americans have the freedom to fly it.

Yes it is symbolic. It’s symbolic of ideas, which, in the cases of the UK and the US, include justice and equality before the law. Perhaps some of those who take offence so easily should ponder what lies behind the flag. People don’t sacrifice themselves for a flag Goldie, except as shorthand, they sacrifice themselves for ideas, or more frequently for their families and friends.

If the idea behind the symbol has become debased or corrupted, or is manifestly not being lived up to, then using the symbol as a vehicle for protest seems entirely appropriate to me.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Yes it is symbolic. It’s symbolic of ideas, which, in the cases of the UK and the US, include justice and equality before the law. Perhaps some of those who take offence so easily should ponder what lies behind the flag. People don’t sacrifice themselves for a flag Goldie, except as shorthand, they sacrifice themselves for ideas, or more frequently for their families and friends.

If the idea behind the symbol has become debased or corrupted, or is manifestly not being lived up to, then using the symbol as a vehicle for protest seems entirely appropriate to me.

The flag encapsulates the nation and those that have given their lives for their nation. The value in it is immeasurable. Police brutality has to be addressed (it's not limited to black people, although black people appear to have suffered most) Protests are worthwhile. I just think taking a knee during the national anthem is counterproductive. But there it is.

 

[sb_73]

The flag encapsulates the nation and those that have given their lives for their nation. The value in it is immeasurable. Police brutality has to be addressed (it's not limited to black people, although black people appear to have suffered most) Protests are worthwhile. I just think taking a knee during the national anthem is counterproductive. But there it is.

Matter of perspective. I am hard wired to question stuff, which isn’t always helpful or productive. But for me symbols are just that, symbols, it’s what lies behind them that is important. The flag should be a symbol of pride in not just what has been done in the past, but what is being done now.

 

[Sooperhoop]

You must log in or register to see media

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You must log in or register to see media

American gammon are livid.

 

[sb_73]

New book by Bob Woodward, who broke the Watergate story for the Washington Post, out about the Trump White House. Because of the author, and his impeccable sources, this carries a lot more weight than the previous Fire and Fury book.

It seems that several of the senior Executive officials see their jobs as protecting the country and the world from Trump, rather than furthering his aims, in particular Mattis, Secretary of Defence and John Kelly, Chief of Staff. Here’s a quote from Kelly
“He’s an idiot, It’s pointless to try to convince him of anything. He’s gone off the rails. We’re in Crazytown. I don’t even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I’ve ever had.”
**** me.
Woodward is 75, and Carl Bernstein, his partner on Watergate, is 74. Both are still churning out high quality journalism, in an age where it is increasingly rare.

 

[Staines R's]

American gammon are livid.

So too are the coconuts.....

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So too are the coconuts.....

Whoever the coconuts are, I doubt they’re cutting up their sportswear.

 

[Staines R's]

Whoever the coconuts are, I doubt they’re cutting up their sportswear.

We might never know

 

[sb_73]

So too are the coconuts.....

What’s a coconut in this context Stainsey? I know what it is in the context of the filling in a Bounty Bar. And something glued to a plinth in a fairground.

 

[Staines R's]

What’s a coconut in this context Stainsey? I know what it is in the context of the filling in a Bounty Bar. And something glued to a plinth in a fairground.

Just making a point in my own way......but don’t worry.....just me being a dick as it’s been a hard day and I was meant to finish at 4 and have only just got home.
As you were.