Phew! That Sunderland result was a close one.I think if they had hung on to the 1-2 that they had at 83 minutes then they would have been back in the mix too.What a season at the bottom,there are still six teams in it for two places.I think Sunderland just have too much to do now.
The Optimist Prime Thread
- Thread starter carrabuh
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Looking at the table, they could probably afford to drop points against us now. Let's hope they're feeling generous.
That's it isn't it, if they draw against us, winning the title remains in their own hands because of their superior goal difference to Chelsea, lose to us and but they need to beat Chelsea and make up the goal difference on Man City (assuming City win all their games).
He'll come good. Maybe not at this club, maybe not in this league, but he was a very good player. Unless you're Fernando Torres, that doesn't just go away.
Is that the Fernando Torres who has won the Champions League, Europa Cup, FA Cup, World Cup, European Championship and Golden Boot at both that European Championship and Confederations Cup since he signed for Chelsea?
I have to smile when people call him a flop, ok he may not have scored anything like the volume of goals he did at Liverpool, but he can't have been doing that badly. He makes a shedload of assists, scored some vital goals (like the one to put Chelsea in the Champions League final against Barcelona) and he does still average almost a goal every four games - slightly better than the goal every twenty-five games that Ricky has for us. Apparently he has now gone more than 20 hours of football since he last scored, that's pretty horrific, no?
I have to smile when people call him a flop, ok he may not have scored anything like the volume of goals he did at Liverpool, but he can't have been doing that badly. He makes a shedload of assists, scored some vital goals (like the one to put Chelsea in the Champions League final against Barcelona) and he does still average almost a goal every four games - slightly better than the goal every twenty-five games that Ricky has for us. Apparently he has now gone more than 20 hours of football since he last scored, that's pretty horrific, no?
I agree. Torres hasn't lost it. He has definitely changed his game after he got injured and he's not as supremely confident, but he's still decent.
Anyway, though, that kind of adds to Huck's point!!
No it doesn't, what his point was trying to say is that if you're a "very good player" then that ability doesn't go away "unless you're Fernando Torres" - ie Torres was a very good player and is an exception to the rule in that he isn't any more.
I know he didn't mean that literally, and I know I'm being pedantic in bothering to correct you, but I know you're usually quite keen on that sort of thing
No it doesn't, what his point was trying to say is that if you're a "very good player" then that ability doesn't go away "unless you're Fernando Torres" - ie Torres was a very good player and is an exception to the rule in that he isn't any more.
I know he didn't mean that literally, and I know I'm being pedantic in bothering to correct you, but I know you're usually quite keen on that sort of thing
Yes it does - it means he can't think of an exception to the rule... Which means he can't think of a very good player who has lost their ability.
I would say perhaps Joe Cole, but that was injury. Can't think of one off the top of my head who lost it entirely due to confidence.
Maybe RvW will turn out to be the exception to the rule... I hope not. He's clearly a relatively nice guy and a decent footballer.
Are you being deliberately thick here or what Rob? Read his last line again, where he clearly states that Torres is an exception to the rule:
"Unless you're Fernando Torres, that doesn't just go away. "
I dunno, seems pretty obvious what he meant to me
Sorry mate, I think tis you getting confused!
Hucks was saying that he thinks RvW will come good.
He says that he thinks this because being very good doesn't just go away.
He says the exception to the rule is Torres.
You said Torres is not the exception to the rule (and I agreed).
Which means the rule has no exception.
Which means the rule is stronger than we thought! Which is why I said you pointing out Torres was not the exception backs up Huck's statement more.
Which means we should be more confident than ever that RvW will come good!
Hope that's clear
Sorry mate, I think tis you getting confused!
Hucks was saying that he thinks RvW will come good.
He says that he thinks this because being very good doesn't just go away.
He says the exception to the rule is Torres.
You said Torres is not the exception to the rule (and I agreed).
Which means the rule has no exception.
Which means the rule is stronger than we thought! Which is why I said you pointing out Torres was not the exception backs up Huck's statement more.
Which means we should be more confident than ever that RvW will come good!
Hope that's clear
Sorry Rob, I'm with Munky here, if there is no exception to the rule, why mention Torres at all?
?eh
That's the point. Not mentioning Torres means there is no exception. So the rule is stronger...
I really can't be bothered to waste my afternoon with this bloody pedantry (why did I bother in the first place? 
) so this is my last word on it, but I'm perfectly aware of what I meant, what HFM meant and what context it was taken. It was your comment about how what I said "added to Hucks point" that confused things because it clearly didn't! I disagree that Torres is a flop and I also disagree that ability "doesn't just go away" because sometimes, through lack of confidence, injury or whatever it clearly does.
Just because I disagree about Torres being a flop doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of other players out there who have flopped massively - there are loads so surely it shouldn't be that hard to think of some - I just can't think of many more spectacular that the flop that is Ricky van Wolfswinkel.
And that's my last post on this so by all means you go for your life and get the final word in as you so must
) so this is my last word on it, but I'm perfectly aware of what I meant, what HFM meant and what context it was taken. It was your comment about how what I said "added to Hucks point" that confused things because it clearly didn't! I disagree that Torres is a flop and I also disagree that ability "doesn't just go away" because sometimes, through lack of confidence, injury or whatever it clearly does.Just because I disagree about Torres being a flop doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of other players out there who have flopped massively - there are loads so surely it shouldn't be that hard to think of some - I just can't think of many more spectacular that the flop that is Ricky van Wolfswinkel.
And that's my last post on this so by all means you go for your life and get the final word in as you so must
Ok, sorry Munky didn't mean to annoy you.
I meant your comment added to Huck's first point that classy players always come good again in the end. I.e. there is no exception.
But now you've said you disagree that it doesn't go away. I just can't think of any other exceptions for that though.
Not a case of getting the last word, it's clear my first post just didn't make much sense. I'm not convinced we're on the same wavelength.
I meant your comment added to Huck's first point that classy players always come good again in the end. I.e. there is no exception.
But now you've said you disagree that it doesn't go away. I just can't think of any other exceptions for that though.
Not a case of getting the last word, it's clear my first post just didn't make much sense. I'm not convinced we're on the same wavelength.
Anyway, for the record, one tiny throw away comment about me saying if there's no exception to the rule, that makes the rule stronger hardly merits:
"I know I'm being pedantic in bothering to correct you, but I know you're usually quite keen on that sort of thing"
"Are you being deliberately thick here"
"by all means you go for your life and get the final word in as you so must"
All your bitching, whining and abusing just because of one little comment. I'm sick of this ****. Any opportunity to swing your dick and have a go. I'm out.
"I know I'm being pedantic in bothering to correct you, but I know you're usually quite keen on that sort of thing"
"Are you being deliberately thick here"
"by all means you go for your life and get the final word in as you so must"
All your bitching, whining and abusing just because of one little comment. I'm sick of this ****. Any opportunity to swing your dick and have a go. I'm out.
Thanks for the apology previously by the way, it was clearly from the bottom of your heart and obviously meant so very much
FFS. And to think some people on this board think others are WUMS
Apologies mods if I've been considered to have overstepped the line here in any way, I didn't think I had said anything wrong, certainly nothing to warrant that little petulant rant from Rob at least, though I accept I possibly should have stuck to my guns and left this thread well alone
Hahaha I've caused quite a stir. For what it's worth, what Rob's saying is what I was thinking. Regardless of your opinion on Torres (and I was half joking anyway), and the general consencus seems to be that he hasn't lost his ability, my point was that, if you are a very good player, as I strongly believe RvW was last season, and especially the year before that, you don't just stop being good.
van Wolfswinkel's problem is confidence and lack of service (he needs the ball at his feet, and he needs space). The fact is, you don't get half as much space in the Premier League as you do in Portugal, but a good creative player and/or strike partner can help create that space for you. Forget Torres (he's irrelevant), van Wolfswinkel has it in him. He just needs the right manager (and perhaps a psychologist) to bring it out.
van Wolfswinkel's problem is confidence and lack of service (he needs the ball at his feet, and he needs space). The fact is, you don't get half as much space in the Premier League as you do in Portugal, but a good creative player and/or strike partner can help create that space for you. Forget Torres (he's irrelevant), van Wolfswinkel has it in him. He just needs the right manager (and perhaps a psychologist) to bring it out.