The Official Man Utd & Liverpool plus Chelsea, Everton and City Banter Thread!

In 20 years will Gerrard be remembered by Liverpool fans? the captain who failed to deliver a league title? will his CL triumph work in his favour?

 

Is that the one with Charlie Sheen in it?

 

It's an attempt to stop them leaving so fast when losing

Didn't Rafa get stick for doing this at Liverpool

We also need three and a half goal scorers

 

Gerrard certainly will not be remembered as a great, apart from by Liverpool fans. On a grand scale he has underachieved in spectacular fashion.

Carrick will be remembered as a player who played an integral role in winning absolutely **** loads of trophies and to say otherwise is bollocks.

 

Must be on the wind UIR! Gerrard is going down as one of our greatest. Question is, in any of the title winning sides that Carrick was a part of what is the first set of names that pop up. Highly doubt it is Carrick. Will always be Giggs, Scholes, VDS, Rooney, CR, Tevez, Vidic, Ferdinand, at least before you even get to Carrick.

Not sure it is fair to say that Gerrard himself never delivered. From Evans-Houllier-Rafa we got so close and then it seemed the owners or those in charge of transfers seemed to pull the rug out. When we needed to make that next step, those next few quality purchases, it just never quite materialized. We are and have been our own worst enemy in that regard.

 

Shearer is remembered as a great despite only winning one medal, albeit it was a league title but still, its one medal. Gerrard's medal collection...

FA Cup: 2000–01, 2005–06
League Cup: 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011–12

UEFA Champions League: 2004–05
UEFA Cup: 2000–01

Plus four smaller wins:

FA Community Shield: 2001, 2006
UEFA Super Cup: 2001, 2005

Surely seven or eleven is better than one despite the one being a league title...?

PS - obviously on a WUM too

 

Only by United fans he won't be but you can go dig out the quotes from all of the ex players, pundits, managers, etc from his 600th game if you want. I never said carrick was ****, but to say ( individually, remmeber just those two nothign else) he is better than Gerrard is mental. He was a piece of the puzzle for the United sides of course and has won a lot, no denying that.

Individually again.

 

Gerrard is undoubtedly better as an individual, but not as a team player imo. Carrick has willing sacrificed his own attacking instincts and goals and assists for the good of the team, something Gerrard has never really been able to do. That's why Liverpool's recent trophies have almost all been won when Gerrard has been shifted out of CM and to the wings or attack where he can be selfish and go Hollywood without leaving the rest of the team exposed.

In our three title wins from 07-09 Carrick essentially was the midfield, allowing Scholes, Giggs and Ronaldo to attack freely, and played a major part in our record spell without conceding. The main reason he'll not be the first name to pop up in the lists of our title winning players is that he did all the unspectacular stuff, and left the spectacular to others. In contrast, whenever Gerrard is in the Liverpool team, it always seems that his attitude is that either he will win the game for Liverpool, or no one will. I think that's become increasingly apparent to LFC fans recently, now that he's no longer capable of winning games single handedly, and so has started contributing to you losing them so much instead.

 

Carrick is one of those players who just got on with it. Not a headline maker and nor did he want it to be all about him unlike that gerrard chap. it always had to be about him first and Liverpool were a distant after thought.

Is Shearer a great?

 

I agree to a point on Gerrard. I think the shift to AM was good management and just trying to utililze the players strengths better. With Alonso and Mascher behind, Gerrard had no worries but to drive forward or feed Torres ( in his prime more or less). Also with those two, they played the DM and CM duties much better than Gerrard did.

Recently his form is alarming but it is a tough spot with no one adequate ready to step in and take over plus him being such a big figure around Anfield. We will see come next year I feel with current players developing more and how Gerrard's body and form holds up.

 

Price could be accurate - I think German clubs often have mandatory buyout clauses in the contracts of players when they enter the last year or two. So 15 mill might be all Dortmund can get as he's out of contract the following season. Similar thing happened when Real got Ozil and Sahin for silly small amounts IIRC.

 

Marin to Chelsea recently... 7 mil. So cheap. Plus the German league don't really rely on selling players to try and turn profit. I think the league as whole are in a much much better financial ground.

 

Carrick is a better player at the minute than gerrard aswell. Both similar ages, ones utterly awful and dropped off massively while the other is the number one midfielder at the club currently lying in 1st place in the table.

 

looks like you really think Carrick is better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.......regardless of how **** it is.

Carrick is probably better than Gerrard at the minute but Gerrard is therefore better than Giggs and Scholes as he plays and they don't.

That is good logic right?

Btw, how much did Chelsea pay for Ballack when he joined? was it a free?

 

You may be right about good management, but it always seems to me that the further Gerrard gets from CM the better Liverpool perform. In Istanbul, Kaka and Pirlo were tearing you apart until Hamman came on and did Gerrard's defensive duties. In 00/01 he had Gary McAllister to fill in for him whenever he wandered off from CM, in 05/06 he was on the right wing for the FA Cup, and in 08/09 he was second striker for the title challenge.

Whilst it's true that shifting him away from CM has made him better able to carry Liverpool in big games, you have to wonder if you'd have needed as much carrying had Gerrard been able to develop some tactical nous and discipline to match his talent.

 

Everyones better than Giggs but Scholes has and always will be the better player.

Free I think.

 

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and that just heads back to before all the who is better stuff...... different positions ultimately. He was perfect for the 4-2-3-1 that Rafa liked to play and could be good for us still if we can gt a forward who he can look to link with. He does well with Suarez but Suarez likes to roam all around.

Hamann, Alonso, mashcer, Gary mac are key to getting more out of an AM player. The whole ying to yang.

 

Think the coach got a massive band for that.

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Yeah, he was free.

The German league is better run in that the clubs rely more on commercial and matchday revenue than broadcasting revenue, and so aren't as reliant on top four finishes as the English teams. The fans are also happy to support their clubs through adversity and mediocre performances - they will actually do something to help rather than just boo the manager , boycott the games or demand the board be replaced. The authorities also help clubs out - if Portsmouth or Rangers had happened in Germany the taxman and local authorities would have helped them rather than trying to liquidate them. And the Bundesliga has stronger controls on spending, so there can be no Chelsea or City artificially jacking all the wages and prices up.

They still have clubs go into financial difficulties, but much less frequently than in England and they usually get much more support when they do.