The O'Briens

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Cyclonic, good morning. I agree with most of what you say.
As for the "ugliness" and those poor animals, there will always be polarised and opposing views. Some will say that we are are the superior beings and therefore use animals for our own purposes. Others will say that all animals are part of life and as such should be treated and respected equally. I tend to sit on the fence, despite feeling that humans are the first priority and cynical towards the fact that we give more to the RSPCA than the NSCCP.
 
Dexter said:
"He is driven more by money than by the welfare of horses. If anyone thinks he has any feelings for horses maybe they should speak to Kieran Fallon and Mick Kinane...."

Thats quite a contention Ron.

I feel you owe it to us and the man you have slandered to back up your allegations with something a little more evidence based.

Since you have the ear of Fallon and Kinane perhaps you could also enlighten us as to what they said re the abuser in question.

I'm actually staggered by your comment.
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Before I reply to your question Dex, could you please re-read my post, quote me correctly and edit your comments accordingly. Thanks.
 
Ron said:
All this standing up for AOB is getting to me now. I tried to keep out of the previous debate but I'm afraid I have no respect for the man as far as horses are concerned. He is driven more by money than by the welfare of horses. If anyone thinks he has any feelings for horses maybe they should speak to Kieran Fallon and Mick Kinane (I haven't by the way but I would love to hear what they have to say - in private). Personally, I fear that all may not be well with Camelot. He showed signs of discomfort early on in the race and maybe he should not have run. But AOB wouldn't take a horse out of a major race if he could help it. If a vet trots up the horse and says it isn't lame the horse will run, regardless of what the jockey has felt and recommended. Time will tell with Camelot but poor George Washington and Horatio Nelson weren't so lucky.

Now I've said it. Sorry folks but AOB's name is mud in our house. **** the stats. :steam:
Click to expand...

Apologies Ron...more than happy to put your whole post up.

I think it's completely fair to dissect and analyse anyone's career based on performance and evidence.

However,stating that a given trainer doesn't care for the welfare of his horses and inferring,without a shred of evidence,that his ex jockeys would attest to his lack of feelings for his charges is frankly libelous.

You then infer further that Camelot should have been withdrawn and state that AO'B wouldn't withdraw a horse if he could help it.He withdrew one from a G1 on Sunday because it didn't travel well to the track.SYT was also withdrawn from the Eclipse because the trainer didn't think he was 100%.

That appears to me like someone exercising a proper duty of care.

Furhtermore a jockey isn't a vet and his opinion,whilst repected as such,should never supercede that of a trained expert.How many horses have been remounted over the years and further injured because jockeys deemed the horse fit and able?

You then insinuate that AO'B was responsible for the fatalities of GW and HN.Ridiculous.

It's clear you don't like the man,in fact it seems you detest him.

That,however,is no excuse for peddling maicious unubstantive allegations against an individual.

All about opinions though and I bet Ardent didn't think his nine word thread would create such a response!
 
Dex, if you think a vet can tell whether a horse is fit to run a race by trotting it up and down a few times, there isn't much point in me pursuing that part of the discussion. Please believe me Dex, I know (from personal experience) that very serious injuries can escape the vet on a trot up. I agree that most jockeys wouldn't have a clue whether a horse was fit to run. But some are able to feel if a horse isn't right and, if I trusted them, I would take their advice over a vet any day, if it were my horse.

Your interpretation of my comment "maybe he shouldn't have run" is a bit OTT, implying maybe that you are over defensive towards AOB. Incidentally, I don't hate him; I don't know him and, to be honest, I felt a bit sorry for him during that interview.

What I do know, and not through any contact with the jockey (I have never spoken to either of the said jockeys and haven't claimed to) is that KF did actually dismount Horatio Nelson as he felt the horse was not right before the off. (See Report). At the time I recall the horror when AOB gave the go ahead to run (based on a trot up by the vet). There is another report later where KF defends the decision.

If you think my comments are libelous, have a look at these.

Regarding the gorgeous George Washington, he should never have run in those conditions.

"The race track looked more like a bog on Saturday, as heavy and persistent rain had turned the top layer of dirt into a liquid, exposing the horses to the hard surface below. Horses should not have been forced to participate in the $5 million race. Four-year-old George Washington shattered a bone in his foreleg, piercing the skin, just 100 yards from the finish. According to reports, he pawed at the ground with the damaged leg trying to make sense of his injury. The screens went up and he was killed.
The press have chosen to focus on the ‘grief’ of his trainer and owners instead of obvious issue – that horses forced to run in punishing races under disgraceful conditions will, inevitably, be hurt or killed."

I think, when we have strong opinions on things, particularly where animals are concerned, there is usually no meeting point and therefore I suggest we put our differences on this to one side and move on, if that's OK with you. I'm sure there are many things we do agree on.
 
Ron - I think your reply is as articulate and balanced as would be expected of you. The last paragraph especially noted as i think we do need to allow ourselves to disagree at times without becoming personally offended.

I feel that your reply does however raise a bigger question that does need answering from you !

What on earth are you doing on the forum Bunnys united (working together for a better future) ? are you moonlighting and all of a sudden this forum not enough for you. I like to browse the net now and again but how do you end up at Bunnys united?

<laugh>
 
**** knows Blue. I Googled Horatio Nelson racehorse and there it was.
 
Actually, that is Amanda every night. You should see her when she really gets going.
 
Let's go.

[video=youtube;xJJGmcqRgQc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJJGmcqRgQc&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
Now that's great stuff <ok>. Was only at the Manila airport a couple of times in my life, but did work for 2-years not so far away from Mindanao, short trip across the sea, in northern Sarawak (Miri) and Brunei. Namedropping again, but it was long long ago, was barely 22-years old then!

Quiz time: What's the most populous city in the Philippines? Google for the answer, you'll be surprised!
 
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