The New 5 Year Plan

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st_brendy said:
Of course.

But if we can be that close to 6th, when actually finishing 8th, then there clearly is scope to continue pushing on higher up the league without needing to spend silly money just yet.
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But it still is the same for all. Last season we beat City, Chelsea and Liverpool at home form the current top 4. This year we didn't beat any of them at home but Liverpool away.

The beauty of this game in this league is that you just can't say, "if we just...."
 
fatletiss said:
But it still is the same for all. Last season we beat City, Chelsea and Liverpool at home form the current top 4. This year we didn't beat any of them at home but Liverpool away.

The beauty of this game in this league is that you just can't say, "if we just...."
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Again, I don't disagree. I can only presume I'm not getting my point across properly.

We missed out on the opportunity to finish 6th this season. But we were close. I think it is totally wrong for anyone to suggest that this side can't go any higher without serious investment. In my eyes, nobody should be asking the question "where do we go from here". There are still forward strides available to us yet before such investment is required (or such a mythical wall does get hit).
 
We need to buy some backup players that aren't ****, and win something. League Cup, FA Cup, I don't care. Swansea can do it, Wigan can do it, so why can't we?
 
st_brendy said:
Again, I don't disagree. I can only presume I'm not getting my point across properly.

We missed out on the opportunity to finish 6th this season. But we were close. I think it is totally wrong for anyone to suggest that this side can't go any higher without serious investment. In my eyes, nobody should be asking the question "where do we go from here". There are still forward strides available to us yet before such investment is required (or such a mythical wall does get hit).
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Yes we can go higher, I agree. I did get your point, I was just saying that every other fan can point at ifs and buts.
 
Kingslayer said:
We need to buy some backup players that aren't ****, and win something. League Cup, FA Cup, I don't care. Swansea can do it, Wigan can do it, so why can't we?
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i think the only way you can do that is sign players for the first team that get pushed into second place.
 
Kingslayer said:
Hence the term "backup players."
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perhaps i explained it poorly. I don't think we can sign anyone to be back up who won't be ****. our only prospect of a non-**** backup from the transfer market is to sign someone to play as first choice and for them to lose their place.

alternatively produce them from the academy.
 
For us or anyone else to rise above 8, we and others around us need to take more points on a regular basis from the elite 7!! Normally there should be a smal points difference between team clustered from 6th to 16th. A gap of 30 points is just ridiculous!!
 
The end of last year showed what we need most. When we hit a number of injuries we did not have players who could come in and keep us at the level needed to win games. With 2 or 3 years of a couple of transfers each year along with the academy we should be looking at 5th or 6th. That should keep the finances in check. Will another 2 or 3 each year to the 5th year get us to 4th. Quite possible. All of this assumes though we keep our key players until they are replaced with higher quality. I think our 5 year plan should include CL or we are not aiming high enough. Goals should be very difficult. If they are to easy it is harder to get people to get passionate about it.
 
I really dont think that everton have too much more quality than us... we should look to replicate their season and improve the squad... forster remy ings and a cb for me...
 
MIsaints said:
The end of last year showed what we need most. When we hit a number of injuries we did not have players who could come in and keep us at the level needed to win games. With 2 or 3 years of a couple of transfers each year along with the academy we should be looking at 5th or 6th. That should keep the finances in check. Will another 2 or 3 each year to the 5th year get us to 4th. Quite possible. All of this assumes though we keep our key players until they are replaced with higher quality. I think our 5 year plan should include CL or we are not aiming high enough. Goals should be very difficult. If they are to easy it is harder to get people to get passionate about it.
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Please, be more deluded.
 
NockyNineDoors said:
Targett is the group below Shaw and Rowe is the same group as Shaw. Shaw is the youngest in the group.
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i understand what you mean but i'm grouping by the season in which they can sign their first pro contract rather than the level of football they merit, which is the same for shaw and targett (july and september of the same year)

i suppose it's arguable targett is a year out because he couldn't sign until after the season started.
 
New 5 year plan:
Be a CONSISTENTLY top-ten side ('best of the rest' - as we were this year) - this is something no team like Swansea, West brom (i.e. all of the teams which achieved a similar feat tot he one we have this season) etc have managed. I think people underestimate what an achievement for this club that would be.
Be challenging for the highly competitive European places every season (i.e. witha bit of luck, or some ManU-esque collapses we could find ourselves in Europe.
Compete in at least 2 cup-finals over the 5 years (i.e. take the cups seriously and have the squad depth to do so) - this could also result in a European excursion.

Most importantly: Do all of this with predominately products of our academy (or buying in young talent like Clyne who can step into the Southampton Way), feeding the England squad and giving us all reasons to be genuinely excited about watching our national team again!
 
MountwaySaint said:
New 5 year plan:
Be a CONSISTENTLY top-ten side ('best of the rest' - as we were this year) - this is something no team like Swansea, West brom (i.e. all of the teams which achieved a similar feat tot he one we have this season) etc have managed. I think people underestimate what an achievement for this club that would be.
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david moyes is available.
 
Sotonist said:
i understand what you mean but i'm grouping by the season in which they can sign their first pro contract rather than the level of football they merit, which is the same for shaw and targett (july and september of the same year)

i suppose it's arguable targett is a year out because he couldn't sign until after the season started.
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I see. I was simply stating what academic year group/age they are which affects the group they trained with through the academy from 8 onwards. Targett came through with a poor year group unlike Shaw, JWP, Chambers, Reed, Sinclair and McQueen who have had the same coaching experience in the academy from 8 yrs old. The latter group were moved up to the U21s whilst still in their 2nd year scholar age. Shaw would have signed pro at 16 as a 1st year scholar if it was legal way before Targett. Rowe came late 2011? and only signed pro in 2012. McQueen signed pro in 2011 whilst still a 2nd year scholar and would probably have been ahead of Gallagher (a year younger) had he not got his injury. Sinclair is waiting in the wings too, a very talented player from a talented family but not getting the shout. With Seagar (same group as Targett) and Sims (the year below) as well as Isgrove who is 2 years ahead in age doing well on the wing on loan there is plenty of backup for a team that seems to be losing atacking goal scoring players this summer. Turnbull and Mugabe are waiting too as centre backs have to. Be interesting to see if Stephens (a year ahead of the latter pair) comes back from Swindon where he has impressed.

Saints seem to give more time to young players who get an England or International call up which whilst a good indicator is not everything. Therre can only be so many of those. If a player plays in a position where there is a plethra of good English players available in top teams it makes it harder to break into that exclusive club. I think Ben Reeves was unfortunate in that way. Since he has done so well at MK Dons http://www.mkweb.co.uk/Sport/Footba...-Player-of-the-Year-awards-20140429232632.htm has has now got a call up to Northern Ireland.
 
NockyNineDoors said:
I see. I was simply stating what academic year group/age they are which affects the group they trained with through the academy from 8 onwards. Targett came through with a poor year group unlike Shaw, JWP, Chambers, Reed, Sinclair and McQueen who have had the same coaching experience in the academy from 8 yrs old. The latter group were moved up to the U21s whilst still in their 2nd year scholar age. Shaw would have signed pro at 16 as a 1st year scholar if it was legal way before Targett. Rowe came late 2011? and only signed pro in 2012. McQueen signed pro in 2011 whilst still a 2nd year scholar and would probably have been ahead of Gallagher (a year younger) had he not got his injury. Sinclair is waiting in the wings too, a very talented player from a talented family but not getting the shout. With Seagar (same group as Targett) and Sims (the year below) as well as Isgrove who is 2 years ahead in age doing well on the wing on loan there is plenty of backup for a team that seems to be losing atacking goal scoring players this summer. Turnbull and Mugabe are waiting too as centre backs have to. Be interesting to see if Stephens (a year ahead of the latter pair) comes back from Swindon where he has impressed.

Saints seem to give more time to young players who get an England or International call up which whilst a good indicator is not everything. Therre can only be so many of those. If a player plays in a position where there is a plethra of good English players available in top teams it makes it harder to break into that exclusive club. I think Ben Reeves was unfortunate in that way. Since he has done so well at MK Dons http://www.mkweb.co.uk/Sport/Footba...-Player-of-the-Year-awards-20140429232632.htm has has now got a call up to Northern Ireland.
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Isgrove isn't good enough. You also missed out Debayo who looks class. Targett is fine as back up but if Shaw goes we need a first teamer. Sims and Hesketh will be in the first team squad next season at some point.
 
MountwaySaint said:
New 5 year plan:
Be a CONSISTENTLY top-ten side ('best of the rest' - as we were this year) - this is something no team like Swansea, West brom (i.e. all of the teams which achieved a similar feat tot he one we have this season) etc have managed. I think people underestimate what an achievement for this club that would be.
Be challenging for the highly competitive European places every season (i.e. witha bit of luck, or some ManU-esque collapses we could find ourselves in Europe.
Compete in at least 2 cup-finals over the 5 years (i.e. take the cups seriously and have the squad depth to do so) - this could also result in a European excursion.

Most importantly: Do all of this with predominately products of our academy (or buying in young talent like Clyne who can step into the Southampton Way), feeding the England squad and giving us all reasons to be genuinely excited about watching our national team again!
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Trouble is we'll not enthuse anyone with that. MIsaints is right - we need a very ambitious plan and possibly one that seems unachievable to us right now if we're to keep our talent and keep progressing. That's what Nicola did. If we don't achieve it we'll at least have had a damn good go and be better for it. But you're right that sustainability does also need to be factored in. Can't just go splashing the cash on expensive journeymen.
 
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