I was going to make the same comment, changing a team's colours after ten years is a little different to 100, particularly when the beginning of professional football wasn't that well organised.
I don't really see a big issue with changing to Hull Tigers on a moral front, it just sounds more like a Rugby League team. Football clubs do rely heavily on heritage and history to sell themselves and Hull are hardly going to be exporting their product abroad or outside the local area for the name change to have any real financial significance. The only people who care about it are the ones who want to keep it as City so I can't see the point in changing it.
These money bags will come spend their money then go just like they have done so many times before , just rich fools playing to their own egos. Why would Malky resign , he will sit and wait for the fool to sack him and take the compensation , probably replace him with Warnock or Arry lol or another PR guy without a work permit Red blue birds? just because red is a lucky colour , ask the gooners if red is more lucky than blue
The changing of colours is a different matter for me, I could live with Norwich Canaries, but if we changed colours I'd think about withdrawing my support.
Yes, we'd be crazy to change the colours because they make us so distinctive. If I'm walking past a bar with a TV on, and there's a team in yellow and green, I think 'It's us' before I even look more closely to check it's our players. If we have to live in a world of ****ing branding, then we've got a pretty special brand in that sense.
Yeah, always hated West Brom for their yellow and green away kit, **** off and be red/blue and white like everyone else.
Given that ticket sales alone are no longer sufficient to keep an ambitious club progressing, every club in the PL has to do what it can to maximise revenue from other sources. Foreign owners who try to "build the brand" are not just thinking about their own pockets, but about increasing merchandising sales and advertising revenue for the club. It is no good fans complaining about lack of a level playing field, then trying to prevent their owners and boards doing something about it, however modest. Especially when these owners have rescued the club, paid off unmanageable levels of debt, and provided money for strengthening the squad that would otherwise not have been there for the purpose. Being precious about things such as minor name changes or even shirt colour is simply getting your priorities wrong IMO.
That may be the case but the people who are precious about those things tend to be the ones that support the club. Nobody outside (except a very small few) the Hull area are going to start supporting them because they change there name to Tigers. They are just not an attractive enough proposition for it to take any real significance. If they are goingto suddenly make a massive investment in players then possibly it would be of use.
I disagree but accept your point. The more worrying thing is where does it all stop? Name change? Kit change? Location? How far will they go to increase revenue.
Disagree Robbie, for the likes of Cardiff and Hull, how many non-UK fans buy the shirt every year, or every other year? Maybe a couple of thousand? I'm sure that many or more are now refusing to buy shirts because they're the wrong colour, or have the wrong name on them? Long-term, yes, it might bring benefits, but you need to be an established PL club for it to make a significant difference. In your first season in the Prem, it's not really conducive to long-term stability to alienate a significant proportion of your fan base.
If you think small, you need to be happy to be small. Many clubs now in the Football League have far more potential than clubs like Hull, taking into account population, ground capacity etc. etc. It isn't hard to calculate the revenue ceiling for a club gaining promotion to the PL (basically ground capacity plus TV revenue). That figure will vary slightly depending on relative success on the field, with added revenue from higher league position, Cup runs, additional televised matches, perhaps counter-balanced by lower than capacity gates etc. As clubs like Leeds, Forest, Wednesday, Leicester, reach the PL and tap into the TV riches, their finances will quickly come to exceed those of clubs like Hull. So teams like Hull can either settle for the inevitable, or try to boost revenue by cultivating plastic fans wherever in the world they live. Fans have to make up their minds on that as well.
The flaw in that argument is that plastic fans are never going to choose to support a team that isn't even in the Champions League. I have lived in Indonesia, Korea, Malaysia and Vietnam and I can assure you that there is a different way of thinking about football in Asia. (Thai would probably support me about this re Thailand, too). In Asia you support a team because it is big and successful, not because it is the underdog. Also they generally do not enjoy what we in England like most about football - arguing and banter with other fans. It's about collective celebration, not individual pride in their club. That's why their own leagues are moribund. You have magnificent stadia in Korea (built for the World Cup) which now attract maybe 1,000 fans for matches in their own league.
Nail -> -> -> Head Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Barcelona and to a much lesser extent, Real Madrid & Man City are all the vast, vast majority of Thai's support (or at least claim to, they never make a contribution to the wealth of that club). Spurs do not feature, nor Everton (although I have seen the odd replica Everton shirt here). Cardiff, QPR, Hull City and whoever else tries to muscle in, are highly unlikely to succeed unless they too make CL football a regular thing. The fans of those clubs who believe otherwise, are merely kidding themselves because they want to believe their club is something or can become they are not and probably never will be. These Asian (and Egyptian) owners spouting about branding, lucky colours, more catchy names, cannot support their changes with any kind of evidence, and it is being done in a belief that that individual is going to somehow totally buck the trend of Asian football fans attitudes (fat head syndrome). I hope we never get such a person in charge at Carrow Road
The Liverpool popularity stems from some years ago as they, along with Man Utd, were the first to exploit the Asian workforce for kit manufacture and other merchandise (something that still continues today) when they were a force in Europe, and took part in some pre-season tours in the region. However, that does not mean just any old team can turn up and do the same today, as the 'big names' have all got a very firm grip of the natives support here, although this does not actually generate a great deal in terms of income directly to the clubs. Obviously I don't know the finances of these top teams but I would wager that any real significant income directly generated from Asian business and population is quiet small, but would not be too surprised if Man Utd were the odd one out and in a position to show they do make some money from this region.
Despite what you say -- which I am not disputing -- the fact remains that there is a steady stream of wealthy foreign owners, successful businessmen in their own right, prepared to invest a considerable amount of money in British, mainly English, clubs. Off the top of my head: Cardiff, Leicester, Leeds, Hull (local owner but with foreign interests), Blackburn, Fulham, none of which are anywhere near qualifying for the Champions League, and some not even in the PL. IMO it is too simplistic to view these people as indulging in some sort of puerile, delusory ego trip. While fools and their money are soon parted, these guys are not all fools to be tarred with Venky chicken feathers. They may behave in unfamiliar ways which strike us as a bit crass or weird (as in the case of Tan at Cardiff), but maybe the homegrown people running clubs need to learn a bit from them as much as the other way round. Time will tell, but too often the reaction is typically insular. Too many of us still labour (sic) under the illusion that we know better than jonny foreigners and what we don't know isn't worth knowing.
I couldn't agree more with this, and in no way did I want to suggest that these jonny foreigners don't understand 'real' football. In many ways Asian supporters are far more in touch with the branded, PL world of modern football than most English supporters, with our almost quaint attachment to little clubs we grew up with. I have to say, though, that the branded football world is not a world I want to be any part of, and, because of my age, I probably don't have to be.
Ah, the comfort of age -- when you can say firstly "It's no longer MY responsibility", and secondly "Anyway, I no longer care"! (How's that for cynicism?)
Sadly, judging by the heat that is often generated on here, we still care too much. I would like to rise above it - the wisdom of age and so forth - but in reality I know I can't.
and which of those clubs, off the top of your head, actually show any signs of continued success, or any kind of significant with thanks to investment from overseas? The Cardiff money was all from Tan All of Fulham's money was Fayed's Hull City's rise was sponsored by Allem Leicester are faltering year on year (spent quite a lot with nothing in return other than more frustration) Blackburn are a mess Leeds flatter to deceive and no 'real' money has been put in to the club from the present or past owners. Where is there any evidence that what Allem is doing now, will work? and perhaps more importantly, if he is going to force a name change by using the mantra that significant money will come as a result of the change, should he not be able to provide clear evidence of this? This is where I get a tad annoyed with the foreign ownership. While the individuals plunging money in to the club is fine, if that is what they want to do, making changes without foundation, should be fought. I mean, red is a lucky colour in Malaysia - so what! What the hell has that got to do with Cardiff City who play in blue in a league 6500 miles away from Malaysia? Then change to a dragon from a Bluebird - let's just cut through the clubs heart and tradition - on a hunch (or simply because they want to). If these businessmen are so bloody clever, why can they not operate with what they have got? Spin or whatever to make the existing 'brand' more appealing?
I appreciate that these clubs have all so far benefitted only from capital investment by the owners, rather than any newly generated revenue stream. But that is not the point. The point is about the future and sustainability. Survival by recurrent capital injection by wealthy owners is not a sustainable long term strategy. The Tans and Allams know this and expect others, including fans, to get the message. It's not to do with UEFA Fair Play, it is to do with running a club on sound business principles. Regarding which of the clubs show signs of continued success, I would say Cardiff, Fulham, Hull and Leicester do; Leeds have only just begun their recovery, but have a good manager now and for the first time in ages have genuine prospects; Blackburn are indeed a mess, but they were put into it as much by the trustees of Jack Walker's estate who sold the club against Walker's express intention. The Venkys made big mistakes, but haven't abandoned the club and now seem to be trying to turn things round. The question to ask is where these clubs would have been if these foreign owners had not stepped in.
