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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 10th January)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Jan 10, 2023.

  1. Mr Wolves-White

    Mr Wolves-White Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem with Marsch and the squad isn't a now/current problem I think we need to go back to the Celino era.

    1) Celino had that many managers we're seeing the shadows of what was so to speak and a lot of that were subpar Championship players. Cooper was brought in by the crazy Italian, Dallas was brought in by Rosler and Ayling by Monk.

    2) The age of this squad and I've been banging on about this since the end of last season. Now that Klich has gone to DC, we've got 5 maybe 6 player who is over the age of 30. It's time these guys start looking at dropping down the leagues and playing for the likes of Sunderland or Millwall or possibly going to the MLS.

    3) Bielsa... He signed ****. I'm sick of people sitting here and having a pop at Orta but to me, a lot of things have come clear over the last couple of weeks and the last transfer window. Bielsa had final say on players (let's get that clear) cos

    a) We signed nobody last January with the board creating BS excuses as soon as November as to why we weren't bringing players. One year later and we've signed Wober already and we'll be getting Rutter by the end of tomorrow by the looks of it

    b) Money. We had the money but Bielsa didn't want to spend.... well that's looking true now

    c) We were signing players from leagues Bielsa managed beforehand. How many players did we get from Spain, France since we got promoted, Funny how now we have Marsch we're signing from Austria, Germany and players who play a lot of international football in American Stadiums. You look at the links during the summer they were in league Marsch managed or they had time in the MLS.

    4) Marsch has been left with **** and he's gonna need time to get that sorted. Yes results have been bad but I'm sat here going thank got we're not get butt ****ed by Man City and Arsenal again. I know the Bielsa cult don't want to see the improvement but it's there and it's going to take time.
     
    #21
  2. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    We certainly don't look worse than Bielsa at his worst. That's ridiculous.

    Also the pattern of play is to get players through the centre in to the final third and then letting the forward guys play from there. Doesn't mean it's right but you can see the pattern if you stop ball watching for 5 minutes.
     
    #22
  3. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Black princess? If you are referring to meg sparkle she is not black.
     
    #23
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  4. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Georginio Rutter: Why has Leeds target risen to a £30m price tag in two years?
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    By Phil Hay and Mark Carey

    If the lure of the Premier League is ever in doubt, notice how often it crops up in interviews with players who have never played in the competition. Georginio Rutter was quizzed about it when he spoke to the Scouted Football website last year, saying the Premier League “makes (young players) dream” and is, truthfully, where many prospects hope to go.

    The division’s wealth and exposure have had that effect and as much as a young forward in Germany has Bayern Munich to think of, or potentially La Liga in Spain or Italy’s Serie A, England is so often the draw.

    During that interview in May, Rutter was speaking hypothetically about heading over the Channel some day but last week the dream became more than that. Interest in him from the Premier League, and Leeds United specifically, had grown serious. His Bundesliga club, Hoffenheim, reacted to it by leaving him out of a winter-break friendly against Wolfsburg.

    That was Friday and by Sunday morning, Hoffenheim announced publicly that Rutter was being stood down from first-team training and would play no part in a second friendly, arranged against Swiss side Servette yesterday.

    The German season gets going again after their World Cup hiatus in 10 days’ time and Hoffenheim were well into their preparations for the resumption. Quickly, they started to plan without the 20-year-old, assuming the clubs courting him would make good on their initial approaches.

    Hoffenheim did not say if Rutter had asked to be excused from training, stating only that he was “concerned about the current situation” and that the club were “dealing with a young person responsibly”, but the whys and wherefores are merely semantics. Rutter plainly had an ambitious eye on the English leagues and Hoffenheim stood to make a huge profit on a player they signed for relative pennies two years ago.

    The club’s statement knocked the ball back into Leeds’ court, effectively inviting them to tie up the deal if they had the money and the conviction to do it. If parts of the prose felt a little over the top — “we are not talking about a piece of furniture here” — it was no surprise that Hoffenheim wanted to expedite the issue.



    Last night, sources in Germany were indicating to The Athletic that a deal with Leeds was on course for completion following talks over a fee which promised to break the transfer record at Elland Road set by the £27million ($32.9m) spent on Rodrigo in 2020. Rutter was actively pushing for the move and ready to board a plane.

    On Leeds’ shortlist of strikers for the January window, his had been the most exciting name, the one that stood out as a highly-calculated investment.

    Rutter has been regularly referenced as one of the brightest youngsters in the Bundesliga, an all-rounder of a forward in a way which would naturally appeal to Leeds. There is a view in Yorkshire that what this team need, and what they have needed since Patrick Bamford’s body began to fail him, is a bona fide No 9, but so many of their attacking targets — those they land and those they miss out on — offer versatility as part of the package.

    Neither Cody Gakpo nor Charles De Ketelaere were out-and-out No 9s or narrow in their skill set. Willy Gnonto, their last-gasp arrival in August, can play anywhere across the line. Few of the names the club go after are quite as typecast as Bamford.

    In early 2021, Rutter transferred from Rennes to Hoffenheim, without huge fanfare outside of France or Germany. He was a product of Rennes’ excellent academy, a team-mate and friend of Eduardo Camavinga, who would soon leave the Ligue 1 side for Real Madrid.

    His departure was slightly acrimonious. Rutter had run close to the end of his contract and was not willing to sign a new one, unhappy that Rennes had barely used him in their first team. They then sold him at the last opportunity and according to sources in France, his price was around £500,000.


    Over the two years since, Hoffenheim’s valuation has risen, by roughly 6,000 per cent, to more than £30million — a demand that prospective buyers in this window soon realised was no bluff.

    How, then, did his price tag soar to such an extent?

    Rutter is essentially the sort of footballer all club at a certain level are looking for — one who provides huge resale value for a relatively low-level outlay.

    Leeds have tried to pursue that model themselves and even with Rutter, the hope would be that a fee of £30million-plus would be no barrier to his value increasing further, given he is 20 and still in the early stages of his career. Hoffenheim’s sporting director Alexander Rosen was quoted as describing Rutter’s development in Germany as “breathtaking”, and he has played in every one of their Bundesliga fixtures this season, carving out the first-team chances which were harder to find at Rennes.

    Talk about transfers out of Hoffenheim usually reference Roberto Firmino’s switch to Liverpool, because few have been anywhere near as successful, and latterly Rutter has listened to those comparisons.

    He has elements of Firmino about him in that he can play through the middle and operate with his back to goal if necessary, providing a focal point to make possession stick and a target to play through. But his pace lends itself to wide roles too, in areas where a little more space allows his dribbling and direct running to take effect.

    Hoffenheim’s willingness to blood him and to expose him to top-level Bundesliga opposition has brought him on rapidly and alerted other teams to him. It was always likely to be this way and if Hoffenheim wrap up a transfer, they will tell themselves that they played the process perfectly.

    Rutter is not the only attacking option Leeds have been talking about or looking at.

    They have analysed Coventry City’s Viktor Gyokeres, despite the Championship club’s vocal reluctance to sell him, and there were suggestions of interest in Sebastian Driussi, the former River Plate forward who plays for FC Austin in MLS. Leeds’ head coach Jesse Marsch is an admirer of Wolves’ Hwang Hee-chan and has been for a while.

    But the noise around Rutter indicated that he was the option they wanted to tie up and the one with the most potential to develop.

    He would not be bringing prolific stats with him — 10 goals and four assists in 57 league appearances in Germany — but people see in Rutter the quality to blossom into a highly-influential attacker.

    Beyond doubt is his comfort with the ball at his feet.

    To see how he compares we can use smarterscout, which gives players’ games a series of ratings from zero to 99, a bit like the player ratings in the FIFA video games but powered by real data and advanced analytics. These ratings — adjusted for Premier League standard — relate to either how often a player performs a given stylistic action (for example, volume of shots per touch), or how effective they are at it (for example, how well they progress the ball upfield) compared with others at their position.

    As the chart below shows, Rutter is in the highest percentile for his volume of carries and dribbles, making him a good bet as a wide forward.

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    His relatively high rate of expected goals from ball progression — the extent to which movement of the ball up the field helps to increase the danger of his side — indicates that quick and direct sprinting can be effective in forcing openings. But the xG of the shots he creates shows room for improvement, even if his own shot volume is at an acceptable level.

    The more Leeds were to use him centrally, the more chances are likely to present themselves.

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    Rutter has seen a fair number of opportunities in the Bundesliga this season, with the average chance dropping to him 15 yards from goal.

    What is apparent from the breakdown of his shooting is that it casts him as very two-footed: stronger on his left but only marginally, and just as happy striking the ball with his right. As a runner, the data indicates that Leeds would be signing a gifted protagonist in take-ons and one-on-ones. His success rate in them (below) is extremely high, as is the quality of his tackling by the standards of an attacker.

    At his young age, it provides plenty to build on and vindicates some of the hype around him.

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    With Max Wober already signed and therefore a defensive crack ostensibly dealt with, this is where Leeds’ attention now lies — on the forward they know they have to recruit.

    Rutter has only so much experience, far less than someone like 51-cap South Korea international Hwang, but he is fresh, he is widely admired and his evolution at Hoffenheim is why recruitment departments have homed in on him and why his value is shooting up.

    His estrangement from Hoffenheim’s first-team plans did not bounce Leeds into action immediately on Sunday but they like the Frenchman, he likes England, and Hoffenheim’s actions over the weekend created a shop floor where the only obstacle was the thing that gave the Premier League its glitz in the first place — money.
     
    #24
  5. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    yep, his number is 25
     
    #25
  6. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Number 1 priority for me last summer was to strengthen the midfield. Job done I'd say.

    Now we need to strengthen the back 4 which hasn't fired for two seasons now under two different coaches.
     
    #26
  7. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Ayling came as a recommendation from Kyle Bartley
     
    #27
  8. Mr Wolves-White

    Mr Wolves-White Well-Known Member

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    Both played in Arsenal's youth system, didn't they?
     
    #28
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  9. Mr Wolves-White

    Mr Wolves-White Well-Known Member

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    The problem is you need to rip that back 4 apart and start again. We've got 2 in so far just need to get rid of Cooper, Llorente, Ayling, Firpo and Koch
     
    #29
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  10. 2 pennth

    2 pennth Well-Known Member

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    More like his numbers up
     
    #30

  11. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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  12. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Yep. It takes more than two transfer windows to make so many changes.
     
    #32
  13. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree... but even with a 50% hit rate on successful transfers (kristenson?) that's a lot of signings

    My hope was they thought they had more pressing issues and would be focussing next summer on the defence. This season may have brought that judgement into question. Let's hope we make it to next summer still in the PL in order to do it.
     
    #33
  14. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Look at what Bielsa did with Ben White, he was the number one target, the fee was too great and Orta presented Bielsa with Koch and Llorente two internationals. During their first season I remember so many fans raving about them, how they were better than Ben and far greater value for money, yes Bielsa would have had the final say but I can't remember anyone doubting them when they signed

    Age, look at Liverpool

    Thiago 31
    Van Dijk 31
    Matip 31
    Henderson 32
    Salah 30
    Firmino 30
    Milner 36

    Against Villa on Friday, I would still start with Klich ahead of Roca or Aaronson if we had him available
     
    #34
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2023
  15. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Wakey Wines 'banned' from TikTok after advertising Prime Energy drink for £100
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    Popular TikTok user Wakey Wines has been banned from the platform after advertising cans of Prime Energy for £100.

    Mohammad Azar Nazir who runs the shop in Wakefield has been using social media to promote his business.

    He recently jumped on the excitement surrounding Prime Energy, a drink promoted by internet celebrities KSI and Logan Paul.

    The drink has seen a huge surge in demand and has become difficult to get hold of in recent days.

    Some have reportedly travelled across the country, while others are said to have queued for hours.

    Videos of supermarkets being swarmed by crowds emptying shelves of it have appeared online.

    Teen beauty queen has TikTok account banned after posting videos about her acne
    Several shops have marked up the price of it, seeking to make a bit extra from the excitement.

    Wakey Wines took it further and began offering cans for £100.

    In one of his posts he shared a video of a customer spending £1,200 on a box of cans.

    The canned version of the drink has only launched in the US, with UK retailers usually only stocking the bottled version.

    Nazir has posted several videos with people eager to buy the drink, with some travelling long distances to visit his shop.

    After he was banned from TikTok, Nazir posted a statement on his Instagram account, claiming a "well-known influencer" has been trying to "tarnish" his business.

    He said "all my videos are all for fun" and said he was making the best of a business opportunity.

    He ended with "some jealous horrible people."

    He had around 500,000 followers on his TikTok account when he was banned.
     
    #35
  16. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Cresswell is being brought back so he can get game time elsewhere on loan. Cresswell wanted by countless Championship teams
     
    #36
  17. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Klich is long gone. He's in America. Maybe Greenwood. He's OK in midfield but his dead ball delivery is deadly.

    On Koch, he didn't really play his first season and he made plenty of **** ups when he did. Last season he was terrible in midfield. Been better this year but so far hasn't shown anywhere near the quality for this league.

    Llorente actually looked very good first season. I rated him highly. At some point last season he just started making **** up after **** up and it got worse at the beginning of this season hence why he is on the bench. He looks short of confidence. He was the better of the two at Cardiff but he just looks completely gone and is unplayable at the moment until he remembers how to play again.

    Cooper is Cooper.

    Struijk always looked comfortable until January last year when the goals started flying in against us and then he looked even more jittery than the others. He was quickly dropped and has done well at left back this season despite his obvious lack of mobility. The return to centre back at Cardiff was a disaster for him. He was awful.
     
    #37
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2023
  18. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Good. When Hutchinson is fit at Millwall he plays. It's no slight on Cresswells ability whatsoever. Hutchinson is the captain, senior player, leader at the club.

    In hindsight a terrible choice for Charlie.
     
    #38
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2023
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  19. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Yorkshire Post say Gelhardt told he can leave on loan, lots of enquiries for him
     
    #39
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  20. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    There's been a lot of comments that liverpool are past it. Not sure i agree, but it's amazing how just a small drop off can impact a team.

    My personal view was that ben white was a good talent but (bit of a mantra for me) .. not that good defensively. I wanted us to get him though. I was happy enough with Koch and Llorente but red-flagged at the time that koch seemed very cheap for a CB of his age in that league with international exposure. Seemed his 'bringing it out of defence' profile matched ben white's. No other clubs seemed to want him though. Sociedad fans and media said llorente was error prone. But on balance they seemd an upgrade on what we had.
     
    #40

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