The Johnson slide

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

I'm not even going to call this a tackle.

Mancini and Gerrard had a bit of a bust up over this. I'd like to know every ones thoughts on this.

From what I could see Johnson did have both feet off the ground, with his studs raised. BUT! and a big but, he was not actually sliding into any one. In fact the only contact made was the opposition player running into Johnson on the follow through, catching his feet on Johnson's back if I remember correctly. I think their was about 0-10% chance of Johnson catching the player in a dangerous manner. I really feel that to give a red card would have been feeble, and caused serious unnecercery disruption to the game.


If he had done that tackle in a way in which he could have caught the player it has to be a definite red. But with yesterdays it wasn't. A warning about the tackle would do fine in my opinion, especially considering it was probably just a slip up.


I have seen red cards for incidents like this in the past and thought it was dumb, so I am not just being bias. I am glad common sense was taken last night.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Johnson won the ball cleanly. But according to the laws, it's a sending off - it's simple in my opinion.

If we are going to disregard this law, then referees would than have to make a subjective decision on every tackle which would lead to further inconsistencies - and things are bad enough as it is! Ha

 

[AndyI]

The tackles were exactly the same, two feet off the ground with studs showing. In both cases, they won the ball cleanly.

The issue is not really the arguments between Mancini and Rooney or Manchini and Gerrard but the inconsistency of the Ref's

One was a Red card. The other, not even a booking.

Its no wonder Fans, Players and Managers are pissed off! The standard of refereeing across the league has been awful this season with seemingly every other game marred by terrible decisions.

I don't what the answer is. They are professional now, so should be getting better but are actually getting worse!

Can we sack them all and clone 20 copies of Colina to ref everything

 

[StJohn_Red_Legend]

Does anyone have an actual quote from the FA rules to say which rule is being broken, as we can debate all we like in ignorance...

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

The tackles were exactly the same, two feet off the ground with studs showing. In both cases, they won the ball cleanly.

The issue is not really the arguments between Mancini and Rooney or Manchini and Gerrard but the inconsistency of the Ref's

One was a Red card. The other, not even a booking.

Its no wonder Fans, Players and Managers are pissed off! The standard of refereeing across the league has been awful this season with seemingly every other game marred by terrible decisions.

I don't what the answer is. They are professional now, so should be getting better but are actually getting worse!

Can we sack them all and clone 20 copies of Colina to ref everything

True. Another problem is that players exaggerate the contact made which influences the ref's decision. Not only this, you will have groups of players surrounding the ref as well. Only the captain and the player who committed the offence should be allowed to approach the ref.

 

[terrifictraore]

Does anyone have an actual quote from the FA rules to say which rule is being broken, as we can debate all we like in ignorance...

Spoilsport, why ruin all the fun by wanting to inject knowledge into the discussion.

 

[StJohn_Red_Legend]

Spoilsport, why ruin all the fun by wanting to inject knowledge into the discussion.

 

[Jonesey]

Does anyone have an actual quote from the FA rules to say which rule is being broken, as we can debate all we like in ignorance...

The rules only stipulate 7 offences which are deemed a red card offence:

1 - Serious foul play
2 - Violent conduct
3 - Spitting at an opponent or any other person
4 - Denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball
5 - Denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by an offence punishable by a free kick or penalty
6 - Using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
7 - Receiving a second caution in the same match

The only concern in these recent cases (Johnson/Kompany) has been 1 - serious foul play

A player is guilty of SFP if he uses excessive force or brutality
A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as SFP

Briefly, the rest of it covers lunging, from the front, side or behind, using one or both legs - with excessive force AND endangering the safety of an opponent

Sooooo, if you've absorbed that lot, then it's absolutely plain as day that Johnson NOT guilty of a red card offence last night.

 

[StJohn_Red_Legend]

That still leaves a huge amount in terms of interpretation down to the referee...

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

That list lacks detail on whats deemed dangerous play.


If Johnson's slide should have been a red card, then punching the air in goal celebration will have to be a red card....

 

[KingEric07.]

That list lacks detail on whats deemed dangerous play.


If Johnson's slide should have been a red card, then punching the air in goal celebration will have to be a red card....

It definetly should not have been a red card.

My only problem with it is why are people going in 2 footed. In both cases there was no need to do it. Why even give the referee the opportunity to spoil the game of make the 'wrong' decision ?

 

[Denny Kalglish]

That list lacks detail on whats deemed dangerous play.


I think that's the point. The rules of football are relatively simple. It's the ref's job to interpret them (eg whether something is dangerous, whether someone inteded to spit on someone, handle the ball etc)

The ref calls it as he sees it - yes they make bad decisions and yes they can have serious ramifications but IMHO managers, players and fans need to get a grip and show the officials some respect.

And no I'm not a ref! I do coach U9 football though and frankly the behaviour modelled by the proffessional clubs is embarrasing.

 

[terrifictraore]

That list lacks detail on whats deemed dangerous play.


If Johnson's slide should have been a red card, then punching the air in goal celebration will have to be a red card....

Yep and overhead kicks should result in a prison sentence.

 

[mighty_stevie_g]

Yep and overhead kicks should result in a prison sentence.

The funny thing is, unless the ball ends up in the back of the net an overhead kick 95% of the time will end up being a free kick given the other way.

 

[Jonesey]

I think it's interesting that the rules make no reference to "studs showing", "2 footed", you know, the sort of things we've seen every weekend for 120 years on a football pitch yet for some strange reason, brings on a rush of collective apoplexy in today's game, by opposing players, mangers & fans alike.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I can only conclude the referee looked at the incident and decided that johnons had executed the tackle (not lescott though one would think he had given the reaction) to perfection. I think it was uneccesary and risky and indeed reckless to go do that seeing it was the biggest donkey on the pitch including carroll that would have had the ball.

Mason could have concluded it was dangerous and blown it up but did not... ire for the ref please, nothing to do with us.

 

[Big Ern]

Rooney influenced the ref, and any team manager watching should train one of his players in subliminal influencing as it's pretty obvious for anyone who has ever studied the 'dark arts' of psychology that Foy is highly suggestible.

 

[Jonesey]

Perhaps they are trying to make it simple and consistant, 2 footed challenges have no place in the game, yes they have been doing in for 120 years but things change and the game moves on.

You would be the first to complain if a 2 footed challenge ruled out Suarez for the rest of the season. I am just saying that by eradicating them from the game can only be a good thing. Players will soon stop doing it after they see a rash of red cards.

Do I think he should have been sent off? maybe not, but under the laws of the game and taking Kompanys red card into consideration, you would have to say he was a lucky boy.

What laws?

I've stated the laws in my previous post, which makes no reference whatsoever to a 2 footed challenge?

As for "taking Kompanys red card into consideration" - what are you trying to do here? Most pundits, commentators & fans alike agree that the sending off was the wrong decision - so you want to perpetuate this?

 

[terrifictraore]

Perhaps they are trying to make it simple and consistant, 2 footed challenges have no place in the game, yes they have been doing in for 120 years but things change and the game moves on.

You would be the first to complain if a 2 footed challenge ruled out Suarez for the rest of the season. I am just saying that by eradicating them from the game can only be a good thing. Players will soon stop doing it after they see a rash of red cards.

Do I think he should have been sent off? maybe not, but under the laws of the game and taking Kompanys red card into consideration, you would have to say he was a lucky boy.

Why do they have no place in the game, why do things have to move on?

 

[terrifictraore]

Of course the laws of the game dont specify "2 footed challenge" but they do with regards to serious foul play which MAY endanger another player i.e. the 2 footed challenge.

whilst I agree Kompanys was harsh and in Johnson;s case common sense prevailed, you cannot argue they were both POTENTIALLY dangerous tackles.

Pushing somebody over endangers them, is that now a red?