That's basically correct, except that explicitly instructing an MP how to vote is illegal, even for a political party. As you say, to get around this the whip system is used, in which political parties, through a method that has not been legally challenged, threaten and in some instances arguably blackmail MPs who are thinking about rebelling. Which frankly is worse. I don't mind my MP being told his or her party wishes to vote a certain way, I mind him or her feeling unable to defy the party if their conscience or judgement is that they have got it wrong on a specific vote.
Afternoon all. Today was a great day, i met up with Kiri at the Brewers Fayre in Peterborough for lunch as part of my B-day present. It was really good, i had the beef and Kiri had the Veggie pie as she doesnt eat meat. Then after that we just sat and chatted for about 3 hours until her parents picked her up so she could do some college work. You Cynic you. But you are right, we vote for someone based on their pre-election policies, but end up getting shafted each time. I get between 37 and 40 mpg depending on a lot of things, but mainly the traffic on the way to uni. On a friday i have to be in at 9:00 so have to contend with heavy traffic at 3 choke points on the way in. 1st is at the end of my road where i have to join a 60mph B road which then means i have to floor it to get up to speed on the hill, 2nd is a roundabout where i turn left on to 70mph A road which joins Cambridge with the A1 and A14, the third is a set of traffic lights just outside cambs. With uni, martial arts and minimal extra travel i go through about a tank per week including the 70 odd miles back from dads. I love that! Talk about copying Watford. Go ahead early on, but then allow the opp back into it and hang on at the end. Thanks for that Leo, i knew there was a term for it, but could not think of it for the life of me.
I would accept your argument if you could show me the law which makes it illegal but there is none An MP is elected by his constituents and is entitled to vote exactly as he likes - there is no need to have a law making it illegal to tell him how to vote because he cannot be forced as he is the MP and can vote how he likes. However in modern politics most MPs are not Independents and if he has been elected as a candidate for a Party it is reasonable for people to expect him to vote with that Party. Nowadays people vote more for the Party a candidate supports than for the individual so for him to vote against the Party means he has misled those that voted for him. He can do that and no-one can stop him but the Party cannot be forced to have him as a member and so they can withdraw the Whip and effectively chuck him out - which he has effectively done himself by voting against his Party I agree with you that it is good when an MP has a strong enough conscience on an issue to vote as he wishes in spite of any consequences - in fact most Party's have tolerated the odd "revolt" for conscience as long as they do not put out a 3 line whip
I think that the above can be summarized as a MP is a representative of the people and not a delegate. At the end of the 1970's the parliamentary constituency where I lived was asked to take Reg Prentice, a Labour cabinet minister in the Wilson government, who had fallen out with the left wing extremists in that party and crossed the floor of the house. He was the most senior member of a government to take such action. He then went on to become a minister in the Thatcher government. It would seem that if someone does not like the way that a party is taking them they can take action as extreme as Reg Prentice, or even try to start a new party such as the Lib-Dems.
Evening all...been a very long day, but tomorrow will be worse so i'm putting my feet up in preparation! Wow, what is that car that drinks so much petrol?? I get around 46-50 mpg depending on what level my learners are at...when they're near test the petrol lasts a lot longer, unless they're doing a lot of manoeuvres! I said 12th at the beginning of the season, and i'm still saying 12th..i'd love to finish higher than that, and would soo love finishing higher than Cardiff! That's so true! Very nice Lloydinio! It was, but honestly mate, you let us down lol
Morning all - foggy start to the day in bandit country and lots of fog lights on (this means they will still be on a couple of weeks time because so idiot drivers do not know what is going on in their cars! ). But I think it will burn off and reveal a sunny day in West West London... Busy week - At 04.30 Little Miss W_Y sent me her dissertation to check out, so a quick 10K word read to fit in today! Cheers in advance for the frothy AK - much appreciated
Sæll til allra. Cappuccino, coffee, tea donuts and fruit are on the bar. Frothy cappuccinos for for al, HH, Leon and W_Y Coffees for COYH, Frenchie, Kev rob and theo Strong coffee for Sandy Milky coffee for Yorkie Espresso for SuffolkHorn Strong black coffees for Bragi Norway and zen Black coffee half hot half cold and no sugar for Charlie Tea for BHD jsybarry jerzeypie Lloydinio NZ and BCFCRed Tea with skimmed milk and no sugar for GG Hot chocolate with marshmallows for BBW Tea and cake for Minx Caramel latte for Hornette Lloyd I like your new avatar.
Thanks for the coffee Ak I don't usually like to get involved with political discussions but let me explain about the whip system. The whip is the third most important member of the Party he has his office & residence at 12 Downing Street. (There are only 3 residences in Downing Street) The whip and the PM discuss each week the agenda coming before Parliament and the decide on the importance of each vote (not debate but each vote) they then mark up the agenda to be circulated to all members of the part. So that the MP's know when there is to be a vote they draw a line under the time the vote is to take place. If the PM & Whip think it is a miner matter or that it should be a free vote for the MP's to take only one line is drawn under the vote. If they feel it is important to support the Governments views then two lines are drawn under the vote time and the MP should attend the vote and Vote for the Governments proposition. (unless the MP is paired) If they feel it is imperative the MP attends and MUST support the Governments proposition the whip draws three lines under the time. This only ever happens two or maybe three times a year. Then an MP must attend and vote, I have seen some arrive in ambulances from a hospital bed. The count is done by MP's Passing through either the Aye or Nay Chambers and the are physically counted. The whip stands by the entrance to the 2 chambers (They are next to each other) and counts his Part through, The Whip is always the last member to vote, if any abstain or rebel they are usually severly chastised by the Party or in some cases expelled from the Party. The oppostion has exactly the same whipping system as the Government but obviously the voting works in reverse. Pairing is a system whereby two members of parliament from opposing political parties may agree to abstain where one member is unable to vote, due to other commitments, illness, travel problems, etc. This they do a lot. As for the debates 90% of them rarely have more than 20-30 MP's attend, so when they all vote they don't even know what has been said. When they go to vote they ring the Division Bell (Divide Aye or Nay). This bell also rings in the Pubs and restaurants near the Houses of Parliament and Downing Street. It is quite funny to see the MP's streaming out of the pubs to go to the vote (they usually have 15 mins notice) Sorry this has been so long winded.
Morning all, I think that the weather has remembered what it is supposed to do here in mid-March as we have blue skies and temperatures nudging 70F. Stinking cold that I think arrived with family from England is slowly subsiding so a spot of sun on the back will be pleasing. A good description Charlie. I have watched debates in the commons when there have been far less than 20-30 MPs in the chamber. At least they do seem to make far more of a debate of a subject in the 'other place'.
I remember studying this at A level "British Constitution" a few years back. I dont think we have one now... An A level in it I mean! Sounds like you work there Charlie? Have i missed something?
I did on occassions Yorkie as part of my protection duties before I retired. Sorry Theo you got me I don't know Paul Kehoe or of him. To make myself look even worse, was he a boring fart like myself?
for the Irish government apparently, I'm told. Patrick McLoughlin is the Uk's chief whip a better-informed visitor tells me...
This sounds like Tom Brown's School Days is still going. Chief Whip to keep naughty MPs behaving. The MPs pay a lot of money for that sort of service after work so I was told.
Cheers Theo, shows you how long it is since I retired. No I'm not, mind you the wifes got a whip she uses on me to keep me in my place.
