My top 10: Alex Ferguson Bob Paisley Brian Clough Ottmar Hitzfeld Bill Nicholson Vicente Del Bosque Marcello Lippi. Arsene Wenger - Pains me to say that! Fabio Capello Otto Rehhagel In case anyone asks, I've not stuck Mourinho in there as bar his Porto triumphs (which by no means should be discredited) every other club he's been at has either had a shed load of money or already a title challenging team in their respected country. If he'd won league titles with Chelsea (without the money), Napoli/ Udinese or Sevilla/ Atletico Madrid then it'd be a different story.
That's your view cause you are anti spurs . Still, could be RobofLeeds and think John Still is both number 1 and number 10 I suppose.
Maybe so, but I don't let that affect my view on this issue. Nicholson was brilliant and would be in a top 15 for me but no way better than the ones I mentioned. It's all subjective fellas, no point arguing
Ah, but arguing about pointless and subjective stuff is all that keeps DL and LF off the streets once they've visited the dole office
All opinions of course but no Mourinho!?! come on...especially when you're putting in Wenger and Nicholson who for starters never won the top prize, which Mourinho did twice without massive money. He also got to numerous C.L semi finals and has won the league in 4 of the top leagues in Europe, won a historic treble with Inter and took the title from the best ever club side in Spain. Yes he has had money to spend in some jobs but you can look at all manner of factors when judging the best ever managers, the only thing that is not open to debate is what they have won...and Jose's done it everywhere he's been. If it was so easy to do with money, why have City bombed in the C.L these past 2 seasons, why did it take Chelsea nearly 10 years to do it??
Between 23 February 2002 and 2 April 2011, Mourinho went 150 home league matches unbeaten: 38 (W36–D2) with Porto, 60 (W46–D14) with Chelsea, 38 (W29–D9) with Internazionale and 14 (W14–D0) with Real Madrid. In eight seasons of club management, including an eight month sabbatical in 2007–08, Mourinho has led his club to win its domestic league seven times, the UEFA Champions League twice and the UEFA Cup once. Since 2002, Mourinho has not gone a full calendar year without winning at least one trophy. A winner - pure and simple. And someone put Wenger above him
Agreed, and I wasn't arguing. Just expressed surprise. When you take into account resources and the recent history of the club before he took over, then his turn around was miraculous. Had to laugh at That is a very silly statement, given that your biases will affect how you (and everyone else) thinks on any subject. Not like you can decide to put them aside.
You acted as if I didn't include Nicholson because I'm anti spurs, it's nothing to do with that and I'll happily admit if someone is good or not. Him not being in my top 10 is **** all to do with him managing Spurs. So no, I don't agree that it was a silly statement
You are aware Bill Nicholson's double winning side cost twice as much as anybody else's at the time aren't you? Wenger had ****loads to spend up until the cutbacks that were made to finance the new stadium. Ferguson was bankrolled by Edwards and Sky. His 02/03 title winning side had not one, not two, but three £30m signings in it? To not have Mourinho in their yet have Wenger and Ferguson is a joke. Even Jose's biggest detractors admit he is the best manager of a generation. The money argument can be flipped in reverse, look at Sven Goran Eriksson at Lazio, spent £120m on players and won pretty much nothing in that time. Look at the problems Ancelotti and Mancini are having at PSG and City respectively when both should be pissing their leagues at a canter. Mourinho's tactics/style are used by at least 15/20 clubs today. Everybody played 4-4-2 before Mourinho, nobody does now. His impact on the English game is still felt today.
Wenger created arguably the best XI the Prem has had, I hate saying that but it's pretty much a fact, that invincibles team has still yet to be bettered in my opinion and ALL of the credit needs to go Wenger for putting them players together. Nowadays he's constantly having to deal with star players leaving yet still manages to maintain Arsenal's top 4 status year in year out. Bill Nicholson was in charge of the first team to win a double in the 20th century and then the first manager to win a major European cup with a British club, he also built the foundations and traditions of what Tottenham still try to achieve to this day - good, attacking and classy football. Like I said Mourinho done great with Porto I'm not taking anything away from him there but the rest of the clubs he's taken over have had the foundations that any manager would love to come in to. At Chelsea, he had a group of players that Ranieri signed for umpteen millions that were now going to be at their best having had a season to adapt to the EPL, Jose was able to add to that as well with his own signings and therefore he had an abundance of top quality players which inevitably were going to be challenging and eventually winning trophies. After Chelsea, he joined Inter, who'd just come off the back of winning the Serie A... Yes he won the treble with them which included the Champions League and I'm not discrediting that, it's an amazing achievement but they were at the time (and still are), one of the best teams in Europe and therefore are always going to be up there to win such accolades, it's not like he built the team from scratch and seen them rise up. THEN he moved to Madrid, probably the biggest club in the world which had signed the likes of Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, Alonso etc the season before and he was then able to add more top quality with Ozil, Di Maria and co. With players like that, of course they're going be at the top end of the table and winning trophies (similar scenario to that of his time at Chelsea). However, isn't their currently increased speculation now that he may be getting the sack from Madrid? Aren't they something like 10 points behind Barca already? For this "amazing" manager surely that's a major negative? Mourinho is an amazing manager, one of the best in the game currently and no doubt by the time he retires he will have added many more trophies to his already impressive tally but for the time being, I just don't rate him among the top 10 managers of all time, it's a matter of opinion. I know trophies are what it all comes down to but some managers don't get half the praise they deserve for working within the restrictions they have, the likes that can; Save god awful clubs from relegation, Gain promotion with teams no one would ever have expected to do so, Having to sell key players continuosly and still maintain a certain status, Working on shoe string budgets and yet defying all the odds. Are all worthy reasons for a manager to be credited on. I'm pretty sure in saying if other managers had the oppotunities Jose has had, they too would've had successful careers so far in terms of trophies.
No admittedly I wasn't. I honestly don't know the fees of every player of that Spurs side, nor the oppositions either so I can't create a valid point on that. I'll take your word for what you say but if you have a link to prove that, that would be great He may have had ****loads to spend but from memory, his invincibles team wasn't assembled with too many players bought for more than £10m. If anything, I think Henry was the only one Wenger paid more than £10m for wasn't he? Campbell was a free, Cole was a youth product, Toure was bought for thousands, Vieira and Ljunberg for something like £3m, Gilberto was a similar fee to Vieria I think, Pires £5m or £6m, Bergkamp £6m or £7m, not sure the fees of Lehman and Lauren but I highly doubt they were more than Henry... I'd hardly say they're earth shattering fees would you? Either way, the fact still remains that the invincibles is still the best Prem XI we've had. Ferguson's Utd was already the best team at the time prior to them signings, yes he strenghtend them ridiculously more by adding those three but you can't honestly sit there and say if it weren't for them Utd would be nowhere, can you? Ancelotti's having problems admittedly but I don't follow French football enough to know the ins and outs but Mancini? Yes his team's been knocked out of the CL two years in succession but they are the reigning Prem champions and currently sitting in 2nd place this season, I'd hardly say his "problems" are at an extent where the chairman would be considering sacking him, even if it's not what they'd be expecting at the moment. I'd hardly credit Mourinho for clubs using a 4-3-3... It's been around for years and clubs make the best formations from the players they have available. We were predominantly a 4-4-2 team, yet when Harry/ Levy was able to bring in van der Vaart, we adopted a 4-5-1 to suit him. Trying to credit Mourinho for teams using his formation is ludicrous, as the game progresses and certain players come about, formations will always be tinkered with to suit the teams style.
