Off Topic "The Great Reset" hence the delusion of the masses

I have to say that I do not have a 'one size fits all' philosophy behind this Kiwi. The ideas which I have expressed are an ideal but would not all be applicable for a country like the UK. In an ideal situation there would still be some family firms though all absolutely essential goods would be produced by some sort of communal ownership model. So a small family firm would be producing non essentials, or products for export. There would also be an upper limit in terms of the number of employees they have. I would view a small family firm in very much the same way as a workers cooperative, if all members of the family are involved in it on anything like a comparable basis. This would mean, in effect, that the firm is owned by the family (just like a collection of workers) so the question of one of them dying would not have anything to do with inheritance - but rather reallocation of the individuals shares. It would also be possible for an outsider to buy in to a family firm - just as with a cooperative. Actually being against inheritance is not necessarily a Communist thing - Thomas Jefferson could not have been accused of being one. It was more an idea of early capitalism which saw the value of competition for the whole of society, and wanted to keep that competition open. Interestingly enough Adam Smith was also against inheritance.

 

The misconception of the existence of an unconditional basic income:

It cannot exist and is a pure lies and cheating. The UBI is a fraud like a snowball system.

Why UBI cannot work ?

In principle for the same reason that there is no perpetual motion machine. For it could be only unconditional if it depended on no condition. Otherwise it would not be unconditional.

It would lead to the fact that someone like me receiving the UBI would we paid of e.g. 1000 Pounds onto my bank account every month in addition to what I already earned in my job. Otherwise it would depend on the condition that you don´t work and earn in which case it wouldn't be unconditional. Everyone should be entitled to the same.

So it should not be credited against the taxable income, nor should it be subject to progression. Otherwise I would not have 1000 Pounds more on my account but a smaller amount. This could be done by adjusting the tax laws so that it neither counts as income nor as subject to progression (i.e. increasing the tax on other income as if it were income). UBI has got to be net payment.

Financing must happen via tax increases meaning higher value added tax, income tax, corporate tax. That would mean that I would have less net income from my normal income - after income tax and VAT - and less purchasing power because the companies paying the higher taxes would have to raise prices.

As long as we don't accidentally come across gold veins or oil deposits as mineral resources here and the money for the UBI should come from the economic cycle itself, there will always be a shortage somewhere.

The result will always be that those who pay taxes directly or indirectly will always lose their main income thus with UBI one just cannot have the amount - for example the 1000 Pounds - more than before.

This may even mean that the taxes for a person who earns better will increase by more than 12,000 Pounds per year and I will have less on his bank account with the UBI, so without.

This means that the UBI is in fact already a system of lies and fraud like any ordinary snowball system that promises the miraculous increase of money for everyone. There is no unconditional basic income, because it is always tied to the condition that nobody works and earning any income, because only then a benefit from that system.

Marxist propaganda lies.

Addendum: UBI is based on the view that "with us, money comes out of the socket".

If one sets up the UBI as an equation and solves the equation in this way, it turns out that there is exactly one (or, depending on the set of numbers on which one bases it) two solutions of the equation:

Either the currency in which the UBI is being paid has a value of exactly zero. Then the equation works out because you can easily transfer "zero" to as many people as you like, even without solving the problem of where it should come from.

Only if everyone gets the same, no matter if they get the 1000 or only 300 because of taxes. 1000 · 0 = 300 · 0

Or the value of the currency is infinite, because then it makes no difference if you get 1000 or 300, because multiplied by infinity it gives the same value. 1000 · ∞ = 300 · ∞

Everything between zero and infinity does not work as a value of the UBI. You cannot take away one of them and give to another claiming that everyone receives unconditionally. There is always the condition, if you belong to the payers or receivers.

If no one works for money anymore, but everyone only works for fun and doesn't have to work for money, what exactly do you do with the money you get through the UBI when no one needs it anymore and nobody is working anymore still does something to get it ?

In principle you can forget about the money completely, because it is completely worthless, and then we all just sit down, open our mouths and wait for someone to come along who just enjoys feeding us ?

 

Unfortunately you have put a lot of effort into your text which is discredited completely by one short sentence. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Marx, or with Marxism, either in theory or in practice. This is just your normal prejudices taking over. In any Marxist state the accent has been on full employment (however meaningless the work) and so the idea of a UBI was simply never considered. Nor did Marx ever mention the subject. Actually the first experiment with UBI was by the first Caliph after Mohammed - Abu Bakr, who introduced an unconditional basic income for every citizen of the Caliphate (including for non Muslims) - this being around 800 AD. It was also mentioned by Thomas More and by Tom Paine - but not a mention from Marx !

You neglected to mention, of course, that UBI actually replaces all other benefits (and the administrative costs of processing those). Allowing that no civilized state can allow its citizens to die on the streets (this would produce more epidemics) then the poor have to be kept above water - doing this with one simple payment is more efficient than having people applying for a hundred and one other benefits.

It also incentivizes economic activity. How many millions of people work for the first 30 hours of the week knowing it is only to pay the bills and other essentials ? Some don't even manage that with 40 hours - and what of the quality of work done on that basis ? Which leaves an alternative - cover the basics and then allow work to actually be for something. If a worker knows that the basics are covered before even beginning work then every penny thereafter is a tangible plus. Do you know that my wife and I spend around 1,000 Euros on health insurance per month (both private) - wasted money and a complete rip off compared to health costs in other countries. Ok. scrap that and call it a basic income ! Then we have 1,000 more Euros per month which represents increased spending power to stimulate the economy. I am quite sure that you have no problem with the rich getting richer - something about a trickle down theory ie. if you allow them to become rich then this money will filter down through the economy. This doesn't work - money which arrives at the top of the social pyramid has a habit of disappearing onto tax haven islands. The alternative is to strengthen the spending power of the base of the pyramid - because this does trickle up effectively. If one person has 10 million Euros it does not stimulate the economy as well as if you shared that sum over a hundred people !

Just a further point - the only country in the World which has a universal basic income is in Iran. Not Marxist, not socialist, not green (in fact the German Green Party has expressed no opinion on the subject).

 

The UBI experiments in Finland (2017), Kanada-Ontario (2018) had failed and the Swiss very witty enough to reject the UBI in a referendum (2016). Reality proved that it does not work still the Left tries to lure the people into this honey trap.

You have put too much effort into trying to explain why it wasn´t Marxism rather then explaining how the problem I described could be solved. How can we provide unconditional BI to everyone, no matter working for it or not, if someone will have to pay for it ? This is just not working and at least I am not living in dream country. We cannot just start another experiment only this time on a world wide scale finding out later that it didn´t work (which the above mentioned examples already have proven in small) - we are talking about 7.8 billion people here. We cannot mess around with ideology but that is exactly the road we are heading now.

Due to soaring unemployment rates we will very soon see that Governments will start using helicopter money which is the preliminary stage to UBI. Since all the money in recent years went into the real estate bubble, equity bubble, pension bubble etc. being the reason that we only noticed a moderate inflation this will now change everything. The helicopter money will be used for consumption hence prices will have to go up leading first into higher inflation ending up with hyperinflation - the end of the current financial system.

 

I latched onto the Marxist bit because you claimed that the UBI was a piece of Marxist propaganda - it is apparently often your tendency to try to cross themes in this way. The truth is that UBI (or some variation of it) has some support from all sides of the political spectrum. It was even supported by Milton Friedmann (the darling of Thatcher). As far as I know it has not been suggested as a proposal for the whole World so don't exaggerate. You are forgetting that it would replace all other social security payments, and all the bureaucracy attached to that. I presume it would also be done in a way so that the entitlement would be steadily reduced based upon income (so it wouldn't really be unconditional in that sense because the very highest earners would probably lose entitlement to it). I would say that I am open to the idea of it (when in possession of all the facts) but it is not number one on my wish list. I also fail to see how it has much to do with your conspiracy theory of the great reset - to be honest I haven't heard anyone with real power talking about it - though in some circles the idea is gaining momentum.

 

https://medium.com/basic-income/why...ed-a-guaranteed-income-5-reasons-da6e628f6070

These are some of the reasons why Milton Friedman supported the idea of an unconditional basic income. I have quoted him because he is about as far away from my political inclinations as you could imagine. I do not know if he envisaged all people getting it ie. regardless of income. But his comments make sense here - if not elsewhere.

 

The world wide actions that have been taken by politians during this plandemic will lead to mass unemployment (70 % and more) in combination with mass migration which we can follow since September 2015. The only world wide modell they have got to offer will be UBI for a start or else we will see Civil War and Starvation. People should not be ignorant believing the masquerade will end soon - it has only just begun. The silly measures that have been taken in Germany today are so clueless but still they are enforcing those strict rules willing to ruin everyone and everything - that is the agenda I keep repeating.

The Great Reset (Klaus Schwab, founder and executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum)

Schwab’s book, “Covid-19: The Great Reset,” is clearly propaganda because they are handing it out for free on kindle. Schwab has no idea how to reconstruct the economy. There was the first Great Depression, which lasted for 26 years during the 19th century. That event was named the “Long Depression” after the 1930s crash, which became known as the “Great Depression.” Both involved a paradigm shift where the first followed the introduction of the railroads, which then displaced many jobs involving horses and carts. The next Great Depression saw the collapse in agriculture, which had employed 40% of the civil workforce at the turn of the 20th century. With the invention of the combustion engine and tractors, this reduced the need for manual labor. Then the Dust Bowl hit driving unemployment to 25%. It took World War II to restore the economy by absorbing the excess agricultural labor and forcing them to become qualified.

Like people in airports handing out leaflets trying to convert you to some cult, Schwab is doing the very same thing. He is counting on the people who are incapable of thinking for themselves and he continues never to address all the evidence against man-made climate change. Nevertheless, welcome to the new paradise where people just follow orders.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/2940631123/?tag=not606-21

 

What 'evidence against man-made climate change' ? Do you mean the 1% of studies paid for by the oil industry ? You are crossing themes again in order to attack anything which you don't like. Do you have any real evidence that we have experienced 'mass migration' since 2015 - I mean in comparison with prior to that date ? Again no you don't - you just throw out these soundbites at will sandwiched in between other totally unrelated material. Do you see any evidence of 70% unemployment in Germany at the moment ? Does this have anything at all to do with what Milton Friedman stated about the unconditional basic income (well before covid 19 was ever thought about) - again the answer is no because you either ignore any info which doesn't fit into your narrative or you side step it.

 

I have been meaning to read this thread as it appeared interesting. When I reached the end of the second paragraph that ends with, " There is no way this is justified with a virus that was man-made and is no more deadly than the flu", I realised I'd read all I need to.

I dare say historians of the future will write essays about how accessibility and immediacy of information contributed to 'fake news', conspiracy theories and downright stupidity.

In the meantime, I'm grateful for that sentence which has has saved me from wasting 30 mins of my life reading this garbage and now enabling me to treat this thread with the disdain it deserves.

(Yes, I know I'm one of the brainwashed proles walking around with my senses blunted by the Government app blah, blah).

 

Warning - please do not waist your time on this thread if you are not willing to think for a minute.

Clearly, the COVID "pandemic" is not intended to be a passing emergency but a ruse to impose a "new normal" corresponding to the UN's Agenda 30.

The dystopian future is taking shape. Mass gatherings have been canceled. We must experience the world on a TV screen. The EPL plays in front of a cardboard crowd to sound effects.

Millions are stuck at home, working "remotely," or paid to do nothing. (Will they ever agree to work again?)
Restaurants and other businesses in urban centers are going bust.

Students are deprived of the society of their peers, forced to take their courses online. Many are confined to their dorms without proper provisions. Everyone is required to wear filthy masks.There is talk that Christmas gatherings may be canceled. Every source of solace or happiness is being shut down. At the local store, the lounge where old folk enjoyed their Timbits and coffee has been closed. They have nowhere to go.

Montreal residents won't be allowed to visit friends or family at home for most of October or eat out at their favorite restaurant as the provincial government struggles to slow the surge of new coronavirus cases. All bars, casinos, and restaurants are closed (takeout only). Libraries, museums, cinemas, and theatres will also be closed. Being less than two meters apart will be prohibited. Masks will be mandatory during demonstrations. Houses of worship and venues for events, such as funerals and weddings, will have a 25-person limit. Hair salons, hotels, and other such businesses will stay open. Schools will remain open.

For 16 million people in Northeast England, pubs and restaurants can stay open, but it will be illegal to go for a drink with a member of another household or visit them at their home from Wednesday.

Roughly 100 students at the University of Western Ontario were referred for investigation under the school's code of conduct after campus police broke up parties in university residences on the weekend.

"At the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, with at least 1,889 virus cases since mid-August, and at the University of Notre Dame, with about 550 cases, students have reported their classmates for violating quarantine and wandering outside."

Our social lives have moved to Facebook - we're being reengineered.

The economy is tilting to cabin fever. Home exercise programs and food delivery are thriving. Amazon stock is soaring. Meanwhile, Main Street is boarded up.

The housebound are nimbly pivoting to virtual social gatherings," The New York Times reports. "They're holding birthday parties and bar mitzvahs over video chat, broadcasting D.J. sets and streaming concerts (some from the luxurious confines of celebrity homes), and establishing quarantine movie nights on Twitter for "virtual companionship."

A lot of communal events are taking place on Zoom, a video conferencing app now being used by many classrooms and businesses (thus transforming it into one of the few companies doing well on the stock market). But it's not just Zoom.

There are, for example, a small but highly vocal number of people gathering in the digital plazas, pet stores, and pizza shops of Club Penguin Online. There are happy hours being held on Google Hangout, and poker games taking place over FaceTime. There are flute meditation sessions on Instagram and thousands of people participating in dance raves that are broadcast on Twitch.

It's a lot for the internet. On Monday, Discord, the chat app popular with gamers, announced that it would increase its capacity by 20 percent to keep up with demand; it crashed shortly thereafter."

CONCLUSION

The plan is to dehumanize us in advance of full-blown tyranny. The scary part is that the masses still think the "authorities" have their best interests at heart. The medical profession, media, and politicians are all taking their orders from Big Finance.

 

Hi Butthuber, how long does it take you to type all this information in?
It must take hours!

 

I don’t think it takes long to delete the ‘copy and paste’ bit at the end

 

Hello Beth, as I had written some time ago my "awakening" came withe the 2007/2008 Subprime mortgage crisis and since then I have collected tons of material and know where to find the right information. It is not just copy & past like some people might think, it is putting the own thoughts and knowledge together with articles that I have come across. Perhaps you might have noticed that I try to react (answer) to the questions that I have asked for. I am not only writing in this forum but in several German one´s as well (not that much anymore recently). Some of those comments are just being translated to simplify that. I am working now mostly home office so that enables me to combine my job and this forum.

 

...and Beth, don´t worry, I won´t keep this up forever.

 

That's the most positive post I've seen from you

 

That's the most positive post I've seen from you

 

So overjoyed you had to post it twice.

I know that it does not fit into your agenda but "not forever" may last for years...

 

I wouldn't judge people by your own standards - I do not actually have an 'agenda' which I want to push down the throats of the unwashed masses ! I have my political opinions of course - but I do not presume that anyone who doesn't agree is either stupid, or is living in their own little World - nor am I in search of converts to my way of thinking. The other main differences are that people actually know what I am for - you spend your entire time describing a supposed armageddon but never once give a clue as to what you would put in its place - and the other difference is that I seldom quote from other sources, but if I do then I acknowledge them. Your texts mostly read like a simple relaying of propaganda from (mostly) unknown sources.

 

My message is quite simple - we are at the brink of total controll. I never talked about armageddon, I do not believe in the Qannon stuff, neither the climate change nor the virus hoax but I follow facts that can be looked up. You and many other didn´t even bother to investigate about Agenda 21, Agenda 30 and the many sources I provided. Particularly you kept asking questions but never came back to these points when it mattered - you are not interested in the truth, you are only afraid that I might be correct (like most people). When it comes to the point that you learn the world is totally different to what you thought then you either realise it or you don´t.

By the way, it is very cheeky calling my sources (mostly) unkown. The United Nations (Agenda 21, 30, Pact of Migration to name only the few) and the WEF should be known even to you.

Not a word about the economic destruction we are facing, the horrendeous consequences for the children wearing masks, the dramatic consequences for the elderly - the total destruction of the middle class - not a single word from your side. It is you who is spreading propaganda about the "vicious" virus - just fearmongering.

I will carry on as long as possible but will not answer you again unless you give answers about the consequences.

 

It is not me who is speading propaganda about the ''vicious'' virus - numbers are doing that for me. Again you have avoided the main question - we all know what you are against but what would you put in its place ? And please don't rabbit on at me about the ''dramatic consequences for the elderly'' because it is you that is asking people to throw their masks away, together with all other safety measures, and thus placing their lives in greater danger.