Not all houses have guns. Mine does, but I know plenty who don't. And re the take guns away, that's just asking for trouble. The most ignorant thing to think is that if you make guns illegal, criminals (CRIMINALS) are going to stop carrying them. Most murders with guns are with illegally owned guns. You think if the government says 'you aren't allowed to have them' that they'll obey? They're already breaking the law, so what would another law do? Just make it easier for them to know households don't have guns to protect themselves. FFS, if you really believe that taking guns away from everyone who owns one legally is going to help, I don't even know what to say.
Two things: A person is going to commit a crime. Does he care if he's doing it in an illegal way? Of course not, he already knows he's committing a crime! Taking guns from everyone just leaves them easier targets for the criminals who don't care. Two: Our president authorized giving guns to a Mexican Cartel so we could track the guns and see where they ended up. Only problem, he forgot to track the guns (oops.) Why should I trust a leader that can't even watch the guns he was supposed to watch?
Thanks for answering Red. We're not going to agree, but I DO respect your viewpoint. Think I'll be buying a bullet-proof vest for my daughter's visit to Twin Peaks though! Seriously, I'm hoping to make what will be a 'pilgrimage' for me to the Space Center in Florida next year. My sister and brother-in-law go to Florida each year and love it (despite the fact that they refused to serve my brother in law a third pint one afternoon in a sport's bar in Miami when he watching Liverpool play ) and my niece is off to Tulsa next month with her bible club. As a family we generally love your country of many countries and cultures. just one last question though, that won't go away - should young black men wearing hoodies arm themselves with guns when going out to buy sweets at night time?
I've had this debate before on politics forums with Americans regarding gun ownership. It goes from what I consider crazy where people actually state as a reason "in case they have to rise up against an authoritarian govt" to the more logical sounding argument that Red makes that Criminals aren't going to give up their already illegal guns if a ban is imposed. I usually come from this angle: While I'm sure Red is perfectly sane, probably has training on use & storage etc etc so not directing this at him I do worry about the very drive to own a gun out of fear or anxiety(rather than for hunting, farming sport etc), the protection against crime argument if you will. If despite all the alarm systems, house security etc that can be fitted to a house you still feel so anxious you go buy a gun, is this a good place psychologically for a person to be in to own an automatic pistol. Is it a world view you want an armed person to have? I'm not commenting on racism or verdicts again but let's look at Zimmerman as a perfect example: An obese, weak man who feared or was paranoid enough to attend self defence classes, which he failed at due to his physical condition (I assume increasing his feelings of defencelessness), reacted to what he perceived to be threats to his neighbourhood and therefore himself by staking it out looking for strangers. Is this the psychological profile of a person you want owning a pistol? Events suggest not. To take it away from the US: Pistorius. Lets take away what is not yet proved in court. We do know based on previous comments that he was incredibly paranoid about intruders to his property, I assume he also felt fairly vulnerable in that property due to his disability. Is this the psychological profile of a guy you want owning multiple guns? Do you think Red that the US has gone past the tipping point psychologically as a nation (horrible generalisation ) that nothing will convince a sizeable portion of non criminals that the country will be safer without privately owned handguns? It's been a while since I looked at it but the stats back then showed that most shootings were either accidental or "heat of the moment" domestic disputes I.e. the shooter knew their shootee.,or within criminal circles e.g. A gang member etc shooting another criminal rather than the feared crime on a non criminal e.g. A robbery, burglary etc and yet the perception pervades that to own a gun makes a person and their family safer. The statistic I could never find which surprised me (thought the anti gun lobby would use it) was to show of all the home burglaries, muggings, rapes committed in the states (the big 3 that people state the reason they own a gun to prevent ), what % happened to gun owners vs unarmed and what was the apprehension rate difference between those with a legally owned gun & those unarmed. What was the actual prevention rate that gun ownership produces. Now obviously in states where it's non conceal , visibility can be seen as a deterrent but I'd like to see the figures on conceal & carry states and home burglary where the criminal doesn't have pre knowledge of gun ownership.
Do you really want to start this again? I will make two points on this, though. 1. The reason Zimmerman was worried about Martin was because it was a gated community where he didn't recognize Martin, and their had been numerous burglaries in the neighborhood (over 40 in the last year, if I'm not mistaken) by young black men. 2. Martin disappeared for over four minutes while Zimmerman was on the phone less than 100 yards from where Martin was staying, so Martin could've easily gotten home and called the cops. However, he snuck up on Zimmerman when he was going back to the car, and attacked him. He first broke his nose, then started bashing his head into the concrete. Not saying it's his fault, I'm just saying he isn't as helpless and innocent as people make him out to be. And for Dirtyfrank, my great grandparents had a man with a knife break into their house, and try to rob them, threatening to attack them. When my great grandmother pulled her pistol and told him to leave (she was at the top of the stairs, the man was at the bottom) he started climbing the stairs to attack her. She shot him, he hesitated then kept going. After three shots, he didn't move. But that was three times he came at her, when she had a gun and he had a knife. The EMT's that responded told my great grandparents that the man had been on multiple drugs. Had they not had the gun, they wouldn't have lived as long as they did. So while it may not be the most common, I think every person who can pass the psychological test and history check should be allowed to have a gun for protection. I understand what you all are saying, and I wish I could agree, however I just can't. I'm not a gun nut or anything, however I do believe I should be able to choose if I can have a gun in my house for protection or not. I do believe that some of the psych tests aren't enough, but I don't think guns should be taken away from all because they don't administer extensive enough evaluations...
Also, for the record, I joined this site more for football and less for politics. I don't mind the debate, I just hope this doesn't change opinions of fellow posters...
Not at all Red, it's a football site first & foremost & you are a Red Red As for political view points and gun ownership: For all the "debate" I don't live in the US or South Africa. It's all nice for me to say this or that in theory but it matters not a damn in practice. Under your laws you have the right to own a weapon and my only obvious hope is that you never have to use it in anger so to speak like your Gran!
Norwegian woman has now been pardoned because the authority in Dubai are scared about negative effect the matter is going to have on tourism.
That's the problem you now face, as your lax gun laws mean that guns are everywhere in your society now, legal & illegal. Taking a stand now & making them illegal is therefore extremely difficult to enforce, but Americans seem to equate that to "let's not bother trying to change it", which is just going to see the madness continue ad infinitum. No offence, but your societys attitude to 'carrying arms' is beyond bizarre imo & there is seemingly little political or social will to TRY & bring about change. You will therefore continue to see horrific gun crime & spend time, money & effort on trying to outgun the gunmen.....
