The General Football Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Beef, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint Lives in a Chilcohüttl
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    And the number of people, especially in America, who are encouraged to become addicted to prescribed synthetic opioids is an outrage, for which the heads of Big Pharma firms should be locked up for life.
     
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  2. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Tom, if you do one thing, please watch that film.
     
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  3. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Watch it back. It’s a pretty crap bit of goalkeeping (and Shilts wasn’t great with crosses full stop).
     
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  4. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    While his funeral will be private, I am sure there will be a memorial service in Argentina.and it will be massive. Likewise in Baecelona, Naples and Madrid where there is a big Argentine community.

    Although he was a flawed character, he was, is and will continue to be revered in Argentina and beyond. The question is who is the more revered in that country, Maradona or Eva Peron?
     
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  5. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubting that Maradona was an incredible football talent and probably only rivalled by Pele in most people's eyes. As a footballer, he often seemed unplayable but his off-field problems diminished his reputation. I can understand Tom's argument whilst also pointing out that history is littered with phenomenal talent whose private lives have been deeply troubled. If you like, Maradona was the Charlie Parker of football and, like Bird, there is something inevitable about his early demise. Sometimes there is a compromise between genius and exaggerated human failings.

    I am not 100% sure I would endorse Maradona as the "greatest of all time." It is a bit of a nonsense accolade because the sport evolves both technically and also diminishes in the collective memory. For me, Pele was greater and largely because he was more of a sportsman. Maradona's behavior of the pitch was often not too exemplary and the "hand of God" incident was not particularly "sporting" which I think would be one of the criteria for making a judgement as far as I am concerned. With Maradona, there are too many controversial instances like this - often part of the standard South American histrionics which is such as anathema to Western Europeans It would therefore argue that Maradona was a great footballer but not a great sportsman. For most England fans, Maradona will always be something of a cartoon villain, the ultimate manifestation of the feral Argentinian footballer that has been such a stereotype since 1966. It is a shame that this dark shadow has clouded the reputation of a more modern player like Aguerro who is one of the greatest players to grace the English game yet overlooked by many.

    It is very interesting to consider what exactly elevates a player to such exalted levels. Any "greatest" candidate is more likely to be a forward or attacking midfielder who scores loads of poetically beautiful goals. They are easily going to get the nod over less "sexy" defenders and goalkeepers. Is it fair that someone like bobby Moore or Franz Beckenbauer should be excluded ? Football fans have generally felt like this possibly since the Post-World War One game and certainly in the "modern" age since the 1950s. Each generation seems to have it's candidates whether it is Matthews, Eusebio, Best .Puskas or Messi who dominate the sport. In addition, football is constantly evolving with the game being played at a faster pace and with greater technical skill but with less physical contract. This makes it very hard to make comparisons with footballers who played 3 or 4 generations apart and often with markedly different boots and footballs. If you see "great" footballers as poets, then Maradona certainly belongs in the top of this category.

    I feel that the greatest footballers are those who are sporting and although it is impossible to deny his brilliance, the darker side of Maradona's personality and the unfortunate unravelling of his life following his retirement from the game make him a player it is difficult to look back with too much affection. Maradona is by no means unique in coming from a very humble background and I do not think it is really a robust argument to bring in his defence as the "greatest of all time." Had Maradona been of an earlier generation whose play had not been brought to the attention of global media and television, the dual aspects of his personality would have rendered him as a mercurial talent and the "human" element would have quickly have been forgotten by future generations. Because Maradona's life was often played out under the glare of the media, it is possible to understand the two extreme views held by Tom and LFT. In my opinion, Maradona's reputation needs to be much more nuanced.
     
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  6. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    By the way, those cloaking him largely as a cheat - will you be remembering Thierry Henry when he goes as “the man who handballed it in against Ireland”. And if not, why not?
     
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  7. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    In Tom’s defence (and not being patronising ) but this is possibly an age thing. I would have had similar (not quite as harsh) unforgiving thoughts in my 20s. Often you soften with age, experience and understanding
     
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  8. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I’m not having a go at Tom, but life is, as I say, most often somewhere in the grey, as you know.
     
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  9. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    I thought you would be as tough as old boots!!!
     
    #14089
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  10. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Is now a good time to ask if Diego would have chastised himself in a post match interview if he’d missed a sitter to win a game, or talked about happy he is....


    Joking :bandit:
     
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  11. Libby

    Libby Not606's Top Interviewee

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    I'm still waiting for Tom to say whether he has no respect for Claus or not. Claus loved a bit of marching powder during his time here.

    If that's how you feel then fair enough but you have to be consistent.
     
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  12. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member

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    Fair point. I'll give the Maradona film a watch at the weekend.
     
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  13. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I admit, my opinion of Claus has been tarnished.
     
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  14. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    You're right on that one. I loved Thierry Henry as a footballer, so graceful, so quick - though not quite in the Maradona class
     
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  15. timatoketchup

    timatoketchup Well-Known Member

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    So it's ok to cheat in the world cup finals if the goalie is out of position? Nice one.
     
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  16. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    If we think of the location of that match in the rarified air of Mexico, where in another context athletes jumped further and higher than at sea level in two of the field events at the Mexico Olympics, then it was not a surprise to see Maradona jump so high.
     
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  17. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

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    You've been chatting to Mrs No7?
     
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  18. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I must have missed the part where I said it was okay to cheat in the World Cup finals...
     
    #14098
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  19. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

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    Not on my head <laugh>
     
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  20. sotonsaint

    sotonsaint Well-Known Member

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    Only just heard the news, great talent despite his flaws and probably the best ever.

    R.I.P

    (Plus theres nothing wrong with the odd line :bandit:)
     
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