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It depends on how you define a top 4 player though, Darren.
Most of Arsenal's centre-halves, left-back and keeper/s aren't much kop, for example, so would players that are better than them count as being top 4 quality?

Sandro's performances in the last few months of the season were outstanding, so it'd be hard for me to pick between top 4 and top 4 potentially.
I'd also suggest that Walker appears to have the potential to be a top right-back.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
It depends on how you define a top 4 player though, Darren.
Click to expand...

My criteria of a top 4 player would be:

- Is the player a leading figure in the position they're in, who could command a clear first team place in one of the teams in top 4 positions?
- Do they have the ability to consistently put in top level performances and to have a clear influence in big games?
- Would someone have to be top class, (world class player) in order to clearly push them out of the team?
- Would there be a demand from teams in top 4 positions if the player in question became transferrable?
 
There wouldn't be many players that fit that criteria.
Nobody outside of the top 4 can command a clear first team place in a top 4 team, for a start.
 
Darren said:
I think there is a lot of overrating with regards to Spurs players on here and other forums. Realistically only three of our players would command a first team place in one of the top four teams.

I feel we only have 1 player (on current showing) with a realistic chance to push onto the level we need.

Top four quality

Modric, Bale, Van der Vaart

Top four potential

Sandro

Everybody else at our club has a lot to prove or I rate them at a lower level than others seem to think they are here. Fortunately Harry is good at motivating players and he has the team working well together.
Click to expand...

Gallas is top four quality, he has played for 2 of them. I think Lennon, BAE and Sandro would all get plenty of games at top 4 sides as well.

Rating the players indivdually is an awkward one. You could go through the Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and City teams and find players that aren't classed as top 4 players but still play 30+ games a season.
 
Worst article I've read, missing out Sandro, professing Taraabt and Bent as world beaters, then the old Gomes saves chestnut...all keepers make saves, as extraordinary as that is for you, its their job. He's cost more points than he saved, its a fact. Make a list, that one would be worth reading.
 
Group 1: Top four quality

Modric, Bale, King, Van der Vaart, Gallas, Dawson, Huddlestone

Group 2: Top four potential very soon if continue improving

Gomes, Sandro, Kaboul, Lennon, Assou Ekotto

Group 3: Top four potential in longer term

Rose, Caulker, Townsend, Kane, Walker, Dos Santos, Naughton

Group 4: Good quality back-up

Cudicini, Palacios, Hutton, Bassong, Kranjcar, Pienaar, Pav, Friedel, Corluka, Khumalo

Group 5: Not making the grade/on the decline

Jenas, Keane, Bentley, Alnwick, Crouch, Defoe
 
Well that goes a lot further than club academies

It's a well known fact that at schools the first picked/most favoured are always the tall boys

The PE teacher at my school was always going on about how he worked with Teddy Sheringham but I very much doubt it given his height
 
Darren said:
I think there is a lot of overrating with regards to Spurs players on here and other forums. Realistically only three of our players would command a first team place in one of the top four teams.

I feel we only have 1 player (on current showing) with a realistic chance to push onto the level we need.

Top four quality

Modric, Bale, Van der Vaart

Top four potential

Sandro

Everybody else at our club has a lot to prove or I rate them at a lower level than others seem to think they are here. Fortunately Harry is good at motivating players and he has the team working well together.
Click to expand...

But we were top four last year and the only reason we were not this year is because we played rubbish against the bottom clubs. I'd say that was partly down to Harry not preparing them properly for those games and partly due to the relative weakness of the poorer members of the squad. I do agree with Harry though that we are only three or four players away from a top four squad: indeed a lot of the other comments imply that Gomes cost us about 10 points by himself......
 
notsosmartspur said:
Worst article I've read, missing out Sandro, professing Taraabt and Bent as world beaters, then the old Gomes saves chestnut...all keepers make saves, as extraordinary as that is for you, its their job. He's cost more points than he saved, its a fact. Make a list, that one would be worth reading.
Click to expand...

I didn't miss out Sandro, I said Taraabt and Bent could have been turned into world beaters (this may be wishful thinking but the point I was trying to make was that football managers move people on too easily).

As for Gomes I didn't keep a record but I can recall thinking during at at least five matches during the season that he'd made a save that I don't think any other premiership goalie would have made. I don't recall five blunders that cost us points (Chelsea doesn't count - he messed up but completed the save - the linesman wrongly gave the goal). Crouch and Defoe missed well over five golden chances each and even Modric missed a few - none of them scored a wonder goal to make up for this. Everyone makes some mistakes - it's the overall effect that counts.
 
Utd away...3
Chelsea away 3
Blackpool home 3

Thats 9 points just straight off the top of my head, other flaps n fumbles have cost us too. More like 15pts at a guess.
 
To be fair we were never ahead at Manure and against Blackpool thanks to poor finishing, and the Blackpool opener would never happened if the ref hadn't gave a penalty against Dawson for being fouled
 
Utd away was down to Clattenburg's dire refereeing and we were losing already.
Chelsea away was also down to poor officialdom, as neither goal should have counted. Neither should Drogba's at WHL, but our goal should have been chalked off too in that game.
We drew with Blackpool, so the most you could count that as is 2 points, even if you ignore the dodgy call for the initial penalty, Gomes' save of that penalty or the fact that Adam shouldn't have been on the pitch.

There were other games in which he did mess up badly (both Madrid games, the Inter game at the San Siro), but I can't agree with those ones.
 
The Chelsea goal debacle would / should never have happened, if he could've managed some basic handling of a shot straight at him, get real.

All keepers make mistakes, even VDS, Cech, and Hart have cost their teams a couple of points, but thats it, a couple. It comes with the territory of being a keeper, your mistakes are generally costly and thats one of the key things you're judged on. Not to mention that he inspires the fear of god into our CB's.

Keeping goal is far more than making saves.
 
You can't blame a keeper for a goal when the ball didn't cross the line.
If the shot had been closed down in the first place, then Gomes would never have been in a position to have to make the save, but you're not blaming Sandro.

The lack of confidence that our defenders display in Gomes is down to his own lack of confidence, in my opinion.
As I've said elsewhere, he suffered from injuries and was never rested, despite Cudicini and Pletikosa both being able deputies, which led to a lack of form.
He should've been given time to recover and taken out of the firing line, but for some reason he wasn't.

Some managers don't like to drop an underperforming goalkeeper, as they fear damaging their confidence, but with the player taking painkillers during some games, there was the perfect excuse.
 
Yeah but even with the Chelsea equaliser that's still only 2 points

Which is far less than having 3 points from 12 against Wigan/WBA/Blackpool/West Ham at WHL due to an inept strikeforce
 
Again, I wouldn't blame the players for that.
None of our strikers really suit the lone role and I think that the rotation and Defoe's injuries were both handled badly.

We seemed to persist with some players relentlessly, to the point of burnout and injury, while others were virtually frozen out.
Van der Vaart in the role behind the main striker just didn't work against teams that wanted to defend and try and nick something, at WHL.
We may have had more joy if we'd have reverted to a 4-4-2 or rested the Dutchman and given Kranjcar a chance in his role.
 
But the weaknesses of the strikers were apparent in the 2009/10 season

Defoe with being offside/shooting right at the keeper
Crouch heading away from goal
Pav being unable to play as a lone striker

Yet we spent the summer/winter windows going after Cole/Beckham/Parker/Neville and the flaws were not fixed.

I think GDS is the best equipped we have for backup to VDV yet Redknapp has a hard time playing youngsters (you cannot believe the drinking problem idea when we have King and Keane)
 
If for some obscure reason PNP your condoning the poor handling of Lamps effort then fine. But using Sandro's lack of closing down is ridiculous...shall we also apportion blame to whoever didn't close the player down who passed to Lampard.

This article agrees with me so I'm not out my own in this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...elsea-2-Tottenham-Hotspur-1-match-report.html

That incident cost us that match, I'm very surprised an astute poster as yourself doesn't see that. If you're just looking for an argument, there's alway's the Goon board!
 
Defoe scored 24 goals in the 09/10 season and Crouch was a useful foil for him, Colonel.
Some work was definitely needed on our squad players in that area, though.

Dos Santos just doesn't appear to apply himself 100% when he's playing for club sides.
Barca don't seem to have thought so or they wouldn't have sold him, he's been largely unfavoured by our managers and neither Galatasaray or Racing have wanted to sign him permanently.
It's a shame, as he's obviously very talented.

I was condoning the poor handling of Lampard's effort, Notso.
It was a mistake, but it shouldn't have been a costly one, as it didn't cross the line.
The second goal was also offside.

Would we have won if it hadn't have been given?
Quite possibly, but I find it hard to blame the keeper for a goal that simply shouldn't have stood.
If a striker puts the ball in the net, but his effort is wrongly chalked off for being offside, you wouldn't say, "he really should have scored that", would you?
 
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