The EU debate - Part III

Been to Korea many times, You should try a martial art, you may learn something.
I have met Grandmaster Jong Soo Park quite a few times.

 

**** player but Fergie seemed to rate him.

I assume you declined both the brown and black belts?

 

I dont get threads closed, just idiots like you off the site, try and stop being a cock and all will be fine. Being an internet stalker is for sad old men, just because you dont like what others post.

 

No brown belts in TDK, but have a black belt, been one for over 20 years

 

Hard man Worcester Red

Love the sig Kustard

 

You must object to it being a black belt? Nigel would want it changed to a white belt.

Pete can't find a belt that circumnavigates his average build waist.

 

Triggered? 5ft 6"?

You never made Detective did you Sarge?

Lest we forget, this is where you started; The Victorians had quite an open policy on things such as homosexuality

They didn't, they jailed people for it, it was far from 'open' it was illegal and largely socially unacceptable, ergo you were talking absolute bobbins - as per. You tedious auld twat.

 

You really are a sad little man, I will leave you to it.

 

Aye up, thick tosser tobe's still trying to rewrite the comments. 'Lest we forget' in deed.

For the benefit of stumpy and a couple of others, homosexuality was one of a number of examples I gave.

Homosexuality was not illegal for the bulk of the Victoriana era. The swinging 1960's had far more convictions for homosexual acts than the Victoriana 1860's, where cross dressing and homosexuality was tolerated.

To recap the points stumpy omits.

Victorian Britain had an open policy on drug use.
Victorian Britain had open borders.
Victoria Britain had open prostitution.
Victorian Britain had cross dressers.
Victoria Britain had less convictions for homosexual activity than the swinging 60's, largely because it wasn't illegal until towards the end of her reign.

Does that sound liberal or authoritarian to you stumpy?

 

Cheers Kustard.

Love the sig. A direct quote would give it some credibility

 

@Bodinki this appears to be directed at you as apparently you said the Victorians weren't liberally minded.

 

Really? Where did he say that?

 

I wonder how long this thread will drag on for............

 

In the post that you corrected him on.

Allegedly.

Before you posted a picture of a French guy in a dress simply because you liked it.

 

Until Dull croaks or the police restrict his internet usage.

Let's be honest, they're almost certainly monitoring him already after a sudden spike in "Victorian transvestite" searches.

 

“It was impossible for men to express anything other than ignorance of the phenomenon or the deepest condemnation and personal distancing from it"

George Bernard Shaw

The suggestion that Victorian society was tolerant or accepting of homosexuality is a complete nonsense you utter trumpet.

 

His liking of Stalin and Mussolini and membership of the Fabian Society could perhaps add to the coincidence of such views and the rise of the labour movement.

 

until volume 4 starts

 

Victorian 'liberal attitudes' to homosexuality!....



ryEdit

• 1810 – The nineteenth century began with a wave of prosecutions against homosexual men. On 8 July, the Bow Street Runners raided The White Swan, a tumbledown pub of Tudor origin near Drury Lane. Twenty-seven men were arrested on suspicion of sodomy and attempted sodomy.[28]
• 1812 – FTM transgender James Miranda Barry graduated from the Medical School of Edinburgh University as a doctor. Barry went on to serve as an army surgeon working overseas. Barry lived as a man but was found to be female-bodied upon his death in 1865.[29]
• 1828 – The Buggery Act 1533 was repealed and replaced by the Offences against the Person Act 1828. Buggery remained punishable by death.[30]
• 1835 – The last two men to be executed in Britain for buggery, James Pratt and John Smith, were arrested on 29 August in London after being spied upon while having sex in a private room; they were hanged on 27 November.
• 1861 – The death penalty for buggery was abolished. A total of 8921 men had been prosecuted since 1806 for sodomy with 404 sentenced to death and 56 executed.[31]
• 1866 – Marriage was defined as being between a man and a woman (preventing future same-sex marriages). In the case of Hyde v. Hyde and Woodmansee (a case of polygamy), Lord Penzance's judgment began "Marriage as understood in Christendom is the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman, to the exclusion of all others."[32]
• 1871 – Ernest 'Stella' Boulton and Frederick 'Fanny' Park, two Victorian transvestites and suspected homosexuals appeared as defendants in the celebrated Boulton and Park trial in London, charged "with conspiring and inciting persons to commit an unnatural offence". The indictment was against Lord Arthur Clinton, Ernest Boulton, Frederic Park, Louis Hurt, John Fiske, Martin Cumming, William Sommerville and C.H. Thompson. The prosecution was unable to prove that they had either committed any homosexual offence nor that men wearing women's clothing was an offence in English law.[33] Lord Arthur Clinton killed himself before his trial.
• 1885 – The British Parliament enacted section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885, known as the Labouchere Amendment which prohibited gross indecency between males. It thus became possible to prosecute homosexuals for engaging in sexual acts where buggery or attempted buggery could not be proven.[34][35]
• 1889 – The Cleveland Street scandal occurred, when a homosexual male brothel in Cleveland Street, Fitzrovia, London, was raided by police after they discovered telegraph boys had been working there as rent boys. A number of aristocratic clients were discovered including Lord Arthur Somerset, equerry to the Prince of Wales. The Prince of Wales’s son Prince Albert Victor and Lord Euston were also implicated in the scandal.[36]
• 1895 – Oscar Wilde tried for gross indecency over a relationship with Lord Alfred Douglas, was sentenced to two years in prison with hard labour.[37]
• 1897 – George Cecil Ives organizes the first homosexual rights group in England, the Order of Chaeronea. Dr Helen Boyle and her partner, Mabel Jones, set up the first women-run General Practice in Brighton, including offering free therapy for poor women. Helen Boyle also founded the National Council for Mental Hygiene (which subsequently becomes MIND) in 1922.[29] British sexologist Havelock Ellis publishes Sexual Inversion, the first volume in an intended series called Studies in the Psychology of Sex. He argues that homosexuality is not a disease but a natural anomaly occurring throughout human and animal history, and should be accepted,not treated. The book is banned in England for being obscene; the subsequent volumes in the series are published in the US and not sold in England until 1936.[2

Not!....

 

I should point out that prostitution was legal at that time, as it still is. Nothing has changed there.

It's solicitation that's illegal....