The EU debate - Part III

[DMD]

No not at all. I know because I was directly involved with the aftermath. The whistleblowing resulted in immediate Ofsted inspections under Section 8 (not your normal inspection but one directed by the Secretary of State) of ALL the schools under suspicion. Yes, the schools continued but the leadership and management, as well as school governors, and many staff, were removed immediately. New teams were put in place virtually overnight. I know because our site was one which directly oversaw the change in one of those schools.

I agree with your second paragraph. The middle-east is a ****ing mess tbh. The best thing that'll happen to that place will be when the oil runs out. Not only because the West will want nothing more to do with them, but also because the corruption and dictatorships will have one less thing to prop them up. They might just have to actually educate themselves and progress as a society. You see imo, the measures initiated by the west that you mentioned can only work when you're dealing with people who will betray what's in the best interests of their own nation to make a quick buck. This then feeds into the extremist ideology of terrorists who use this (wrongly) to sucker in the naive and hopeless. In the past I'd have said **** the dictators, let the people decide their own future with democratically elected governements. But then you see the Arab Spring, and I can't help thinking that was a failure. It certainly seems like it. How hopeless is that???? Imagine you live there. You'd honestly think **** this, nothing matters! Although maybe meaningful democracy is a gradual process which will take a century to establish after the Arab Spring, and will go through turbulent times during the process.

The actions may have come quickly after the whistleblowing, but the schools were running a fair while before the whistle.

A look into the Arab Spring and some of the other actions round there can be revealing.

There clearly isn't a short, simple solution, and a lot of players are now in their own game. The Kurds and Turks attacking a common goal, as well as each other.

As long as they can limit their own cash grab, I feel far more comfortable with a Russia US coalition than I would had Clinton and her regime been involved in that region. Interviews with people in the region seems to point at them preferring a strong dictator over a weak democracy. Many are tribal rather than regional anyway.

 

[Tobes]

They also have an infant mortality rate 20 times that of the UK. Do you not think that might have some bearing on the birth rate. Until they can afford to improve their healthcare, or more precisely the developed world cease charging them excessively for medicines they will have more children. The mortality rate of children between 1 and 4 is 274 per 1000. Sitting in your garage surrounded by piles of empty pizza boxes you have no idea about the real world

Spunk on their tits was his solution, the fat mutant

 

[DMD]

Blaming Islam for Jihadists is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA

I'll add Nick Griffin to the list of far right bigots that you've defended on these threads

Don't carry on being so ****ing stupid.

 

[Tobes]

Don't carry on being so ****ing stupid.

QED

 

[NSIS]

That does highlight that media coverage combined with suppression of speech doesn't work in combating extremists, as he went on from there.

So, you believe that racist scum, like Griffin, shouldn't be exposed for what they are at every point?...

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

So, you believe that racist scum, like Griffin, shouldn't be exposed for what they are at every point?...

Is that why Pete keeps posting all of those Daily Mail and Express links?
I completely misunderstood, if that's the case.

 

[DMD]

So, you believe that racist scum, like Griffin, shouldn't be exposed for what they are at every point?...

Nope, I believe the exact opposite, that's what is being discussed on this thread. The best way to counter such claims is to have them publicly and openly debated,

The trend of some to squeal 'racist' to try to stifle debate only makes it worse.

Likewise, those same people seem to fear an open discussion on the hate mongers that associate themselves with Islam or on Islam itself.

 

[NSIS]

Nope, I believe the exact opposite, that's what is being discussed on this thread. The best way to counter such claims is to have them publicly and openly debated,

The trend of some to squeal 'racist' to try to stifle debate only makes it worse.

Likewise, those same people seem to fear an open discussion on the hate mongers that associate themselves with Islam or on Islam itself.

I think I, and others, have made it more than clear that we have no time for extremists of whatever ilk. But this is not a competition - your extremists are worse than ours, etc..

I'll condemn the Islamic hate brigade as readily as Griffin. Unlike Griffin, they make it perfectly clear who they are and what they believe.

I'm glad that the worst of them seem to be fretting stamped on now...

 

[DMD]

I think I, and others, have made it more than clear that we have no time for extremists of whatever ilk. But this is not a competition - your extremists are worse than ours, etc..

I'll condemn the Islamic hate brigade as readily as Griffin. Unlike Griffin, they make it perfectly clear who they are and what they believe.

I'm glad that the worst of them seem to be fretting stamped on now...

Your general solution is not to debate openly, but to try and silence uncomfortable views with meaningless cries of 'racist' or other forms of dismissal. To lump a non-entity like Griffin with people whose words and actions are quite likely to result in death and oppression is ridiculous.

The fact Griffin is even being discussed is an example of the way some try to divert debates into the hatemongers.

 

[NSIS]

Your general solution is not to debate openly, but to try and silence uncomfortable views with meaningless cries of 'racist' or other forms of dismissal. To lump a non-entity like Griffin with people whose words and actions are quite likely to result in death and oppression is ridiculous.

The fact Griffin is even being discussed is an example of the way some try to divert debates into the hatemongers.

That's either disengenious, or just evasive bollocks!...

Griffin is a stone racist hate monger. He hates for no other reason than the ethnicity of a person and mainly the colour of their skin. He's scum of the highest order. Of course his words could easily result in death, there enough nutters who follow him!,.

I'm happy to condemn Islamic extremists. They have no place in any civilised society and should be stamped on wherever they peddle their hate. However your evasive tactics ( wow! There's something new!) about the likes of Griffin, make me wonder just how neutral you are about his whole issue!?...

 

[DMD]

That's either disengenious, or just evasive bollocks!...

Griffin is a stone racist hate monger. He hates for no other reason than the ethnicity of a person and mainly the colour of their skin. He's scum of the highest order. Of course his words could easily result in death, there enough nutters who follow him!,.

I'm happy to condemn Islamic extremists. They have no place in any civilised society and should be stamped on wherever they peddle their hate. However your evasive tactics ( wow! There's something new!) about the likes of Griffin, make me wonder just how neutral you are about his whole issue!?...

Total bollocks. You're just desperately trying to carry on this inaccurate narrative on me that you've repeatedly failed to prove, and my own posts show to be bollocks.

Griffin has no supporters now, and didn't have many at his peak. Whatever else he's accused of, he's never promoted terrorism or beheading. BNP meetings were held in private and under other names to avoid the left turning up to cause trouble. The mention of him in this context is simply diversionary.

Contrast that with the murder and mayhem the others carry out.

Griffin fell apart when he engaged in public debate about his thoughts and policies. He was then ridiculed. Up until then, trying to silence him by squealing 'racist' simply made the word meaningless and ridiculous and helped give his words credibility because they were not properly challenged.

Islamic hatemongers need their views publicly challenged in the same way, by muslims and infidels alike, but for whatever reason, some fear doing that.

 

[Treble]

The actions may have come quickly after the whistleblowing, but the schools were running a fair while before the whistle.

A look into the Arab Spring and some of the other actions round there can be revealing.

There clearly isn't a short, simple solution, and a lot of players are now in their own game. The Kurds and Turks attacking a common goal, as well as each other.

As long as they can limit their own cash grab, I feel far more comfortable with a Russia US coalition than I would had Clinton and her regime been involved in that region. Interviews with people in the region seems to point at them preferring a strong dictator over a weak democracy. Many are tribal rather than regional anyway.

That first bit is a little unfair. How the heck is anyone meant to do anything if they don't know about it Had they dragged their heals afterwards it would be fair criticism. BTW the whole Ofsted system is politicised. The primary driving factor of any Ofsted grading is results/outcomes. Pupils achieving National or above, they'll go into a school with a predisposition to grade Outstanding, regardless of practise (I'm not talking about extremism here, I'm talking teaching practise). Whereas another school could be performing miracles in terms of their teaching practise, but as a result of circumstances beyond their control, because the outcomes aren't as good, they'll be graded as Requiring Improvement. Now, when you have a culture like that, it's no surprise certain things get missed. However, they get missed because of a desire to follow a political agenda that suits the governement of the time in terms of their Education policy, it's not as a result of some favouring of Islam or anything.

I actually agree about the Russia US coalition. I'll be interested to see how things play out. Tbh it could go really well or really badly. However that still compares better to Clinton and Obama, where all we expected is things to go really badly.

 

[DMD]

That first bit is a little unfair. How the heck is anyone meant to do anything if they don't know about it Had they dragged their heals afterwards it would be fair criticism. BTW the whole Ofsted system is politicised. The primary driving factor of any Ofsted grading is results/outcomes. Pupils achieving National or above, they'll go into a school with a predisposition to grade Outstanding, regardless of practise (I'm not talking about extremism here, I'm talking teaching practise). Whereas another school could be performing miracles in terms of their teaching practise, but as a result of circumstances beyond their control, because the outcomes aren't as good, they'll be graded as Requiring Improvement. Now, when you have a culture like that, it's no surprise certain things get missed. However, they get missed because of a desire to follow a political agenda that suits the governement of the time in terms of their Education policy, it's not as a result of some favouring of Islam or anything.

I actually agree about the Russia US coalition. I'll be interested to see how things play out. Tbh it could go really well or really badly. However that still compares better to Clinton and Obama, where all we expected is things to go really badly.

Not wanting to drag it out, but it was something that, like the sex crimes, was talked about long before the system kicked in to action. I'm not a supporter of the Ofsted system as it's currently run, it places too much emphasis on numbers that are to a degree meaningless and that encourages an imaginative interpretation and takes too much time away from actually teaching.

Trump and Putin have one hell of an opportunity. A fair amount depends on their abilities, but also, and not wanting to sound like an Illuminati, a fair amount depends on the Bildeberg types and hawks keeping their involvement to a minimum.


**** like this adds another dimension.

You must log in or register to see media

The people seem a tad more balanced.

You must log in or register to see media

Another interesting view from that region.

You must log in or register to see media

 

[NSIS]

Total bollocks. You're just desperately trying to carry on this inaccurate narrative on me that you've repeatedly failed to prove, and my own posts show to be bollocks.

Griffin has no supporters now, and didn't have many at his peak. Whatever else he's accused of, he's never promoted terrorism or beheading. BNP meetings were held in private and under other names to avoid the left turning up to cause trouble. The mention of him in this context is simply diversionary.

Contrast that with the murder and mayhem the others carry out.

Griffin fell apart when he engaged in public debate about his thoughts and policies. He was then ridiculed. Up until then, trying to silence him by squealing 'racist' simply made the word meaningless and ridiculous and helped give his words credibility because they were not properly challenged.

Islamic hatemongers need their views publicly challenged in the same way, by muslims and infidels alike, but for whatever reason, some fear doing that.

Diversionary Bullshit!...

Griffin is every bit as bad as the Islamic fundamentalists. He's an extremist, ffs!

Do you seriously think a sick in the head stone racist, like Griffin, wouldn't go to the same lengths as the worst of the fundamentalists? Of course he would, given the chance. He's be happy to carry out murder and mayhem to achieve his ains, if he were in a position to do so.

He's a holocaust denier, a fanatic, and needs to be exposed for exactly what he is.

And BNP meeting are held in private, are they? Something you learned from personal experience, no doubt! Like the one in the video you mean?

You seem to, as usual, want to turn this into some kind of competition! This is not a ****ing game where points are scored! These people are dangerous, Griffin included. Luckily, most sane people treat him with the contempt he deserves.

 

[DMD]

Diversionary Bullshit!...

Griffin is every bit as bad as the Islamic fundamentalists. He's an extremist, ffs!

Do you seriously think a sick in the head stone racist, like Griffin, wouldn't go to the same lengths as the worst of the fundamentalists? Of course he would, given the chance. He's be happy to carry out murder and mayhem to achieve his ains, if he were in a position to do so.

He's a holocaust denier, a fanatic, and needs to be exposed for exactly what he is.

And BNP meeting are held in private, are they? Something you learned from personal experience, no doubt! Like the one in the video you mean?

You seem to, as usual, want to turn this into some kind of competition! This is not a ****ing game where points are scored! These people are dangerous, Griffin included. Luckily, most sane people treat him with the contempt he deserves.

That is such a patently ridiculous response, it's barely worth a reply. Your first two words sum it up.

It wasn't until I googled that I found out Griffin is still around, seemingly he's an MEP representing a party called 'Unity'. I've not looked at their policies, so you can check yourself and see which bits you find comparable to any you find on ISIS or other similar extremist groups. I found the BNP policies and posted a link so you can find the ones there that want to kill gays and infidels and control the world by force.

A quick look at the policies and actions of both groups show the nonsense of it. Here's a couple of fundamental differences, with links to some others. A key difference is one is attempting it by the ballot box, one by the bomb. Another is that one has very few members and loses out to the monster raving loony party, the other recruits more extremists and causes one of the biggest migrations the world has seen.

https://www.bnp.org.uk/policies

"Each nation has the right to maintain its own identity. The right of India to remain Indian, the right of China to remain Chinese, the right of Pakistan to remain Pakistani and the right of Saudi Arabia to remain Saudi does not mean that any of these nations “hate” anybody else.

All it means is that they wish to preserve their identity and national existence."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...lled-islamic-state-really-wants-10352950.html

Isis stated its ultimate aim as the establishment of a single, global state under its interpretation of Islamic rule, examples of what that means can be seen in states they run.


To try to claim they're of a similar level is simply extremist apologism.

 

[Stan]

I see the hapless Theresa and Boris are being ridiculed by the press today. She won't make it to the next election. That nervous twitch is getting more pronounced in every interview.

 

[Tiddler]

I see the hapless Theresa and Boris are being ridiculed by the press today. She won't make it to the next election. That nervous twitch is getting more pronounced in every interview.

We really Mustapha new Pm

 

[Stan]

We really Mustapha new Pm

Agreed.

Although your spelling is of Kustard standards.

 

[NSIS]

That is such a patently ridiculous response, it's barely worth a reply. Your first two words sum it up.

It wasn't until I googled that I found out Griffin is still around, seemingly he's an MEP representing a party called 'Unity'. I've not looked at their policies, so you can check yourself and see which bits you find comparable to any you find on ISIS or other similar extremist groups. I found the BNP policies and posted a link so you can find the ones there that want to kill gays and infidels and control the world by force.

A quick look at the policies and actions of both groups show the nonsense of it. Here's a couple of fundamental differences, with links to some others. A key difference is one is attempting it by the ballot box, one by the bomb. Another is that one has very few members and loses out to the monster raving loony party, the other recruits more extremists and causes one of the biggest migrations the world has seen.

https://www.bnp.org.uk/policies

"Each nation has the right to maintain its own identity. The right of India to remain Indian, the right of China to remain Chinese, the right of Pakistan to remain Pakistani and the right of Saudi Arabia to remain Saudi does not mean that any of these nations “hate” anybody else.

All it means is that they wish to preserve their identity and national existence."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...lled-islamic-state-really-wants-10352950.html

Isis stated its ultimate aim as the establishment of a single, global state under its interpretation of Islamic rule, examples of what that means can be seen in states they run.


To try to claim they're of a similar level is simply extremist apologism.

Bullshit again!...

So, you believe what Griffin says now, because it suits your views. I think he's already made it clear what his true views are! Anybody who can seriously deny that the holocaust ever happened would obviously be happy for it 'not to happen' again!...

ISIL are nutters! They have zero chance of achieving their goals. They won't even last in Syria much longer.

Of course Griffin wants to keep everybody in their own little place, as he sees it. He's a stone racist, ffs!

As I've said , this is not a ****ing competition, you numbskull! 'Your nutters are worse than ours' They're all dangerous extremists, who given the opportunity would carry out their ethnic cleansing plans.

The only major difference is that Griffin doesn't have access to anywhere near the arms and resources that the Islamic fundamentalists have. I've no doubt he could and would be as dangerous if he did!...

 

[DMD]

Bullshit again!...

So, you believe what Griffin says now, because it suits your views. I think he's already made it clear what his true views are! Anybody who can seriously deny that the holocaust ever happened would obviously be happy for it 'not to happen' again!...

ISIL are nutters! They have zero chance of achieving their goals. They won't even last in Syria much longer.

Of course Griffin wants to keep everybody in their own little place, as he sees it. He's a stone racist, ffs!

As I've said , this is not a ****ing competition, you numbskull! 'Your nutters are worse than ours' They're all dangerous extremists, who given the opportunity would carry out their ethnic cleansing plans.

The only major difference is that Griffin doesn't have access to anywhere near the arms and resources that the Islamic fundamentalists have. I've no doubt he could and would be as dangerous if he did!...

What a waste of bandwidth.