Off Topic The Environment

[oldfrenchhorn]

Sad to see a new coal power station has opened in Germany joining similar power stations burning lignite, the dirtiest of coals. The existing four of these establishments are causing an estimated 4,200 deaths a year. The German government has ignored the Un request that no coal plant should open anywhere in the world. The UK has largely eliminated coal from its power system, Germany are not due to phase coal out until 2038.

Can we ask the EU to meet our standards?

You seem to be confusing the UN and the EU here. The 2nd largest polluter in the world is the USA so this whole topic is about what is happening in the world, and they are doing their best to avoid the lead being given to them by European countries.

U.S. electricity production from coal sources has dropped in recent decades, from over half in 1992 to about a third of electricity production in 2015. At the same time, however, the United States has become the world's largest producer of crude oil and significantly ramped up natural gas production and usage – though natural gas use results in relatively less CO2 emissions, the methane output during its production and destructive extraction techniques are by no means more environmentally friendly. Over the 25-year period through 2015, U.S. electricity production from natural gas sources grew from 13.1% to 31.9% of total electricity generated. In 2012, the latest data year, nearly 500 million metric tons of methane, a far more harmful GHG, was emitted by the United States, the fourth highest amount of countries on this list.

Germany is showing progress in carbon reduction, having lowered its output by over 17% between 1992 and 2016. The country also has the most aggressive plan for further reductions than any other EU nation. While many climate scientists argue for the continuation, and even expansion, of nuclear power because of its zero emissions, Germany is phasing out its nuclear plants. While CO2 emissions from most countries on this list have increased substantially between 1992 and 2017, Germany's CO2 emissions declined by 17.3% over that period.
The country, however, is still heavily dependent on coal – and most of its plants burn lignite, the dirtiest coal. In 2015, Germany generated 44.3% of its electricity from coal sources.

While the UK has done well, France, Spain and Italy are all producing less pollutants and are doing better than the UK.

 

[superhorns]

You seem to be confusing the UN and the EU here. The 2nd largest polluter in the world is the USA so this whole topic is about what is happening in the world, and they are doing their best to avoid the lead being given to them by European countries.

U.S. electricity production from coal sources has dropped in recent decades, from over half in 1992 to about a third of electricity production in 2015. At the same time, however, the United States has become the world's largest producer of crude oil and significantly ramped up natural gas production and usage – though natural gas use results in relatively less CO2 emissions, the methane output during its production and destructive extraction techniques are by no means more environmentally friendly. Over the 25-year period through 2015, U.S. electricity production from natural gas sources grew from 13.1% to 31.9% of total electricity generated. In 2012, the latest data year, nearly 500 million metric tons of methane, a far more harmful GHG, was emitted by the United States, the fourth highest amount of countries on this list.

Germany is showing progress in carbon reduction, having lowered its output by over 17% between 1992 and 2016. The country also has the most aggressive plan for further reductions than any other EU nation. While many climate scientists argue for the continuation, and even expansion, of nuclear power because of its zero emissions, Germany is phasing out its nuclear plants. While CO2 emissions from most countries on this list have increased substantially between 1992 and 2017, Germany's CO2 emissions declined by 17.3% over that period.
The country, however, is still heavily dependent on coal – and most of its plants burn lignite, the dirtiest coal. In 2015, Germany generated 44.3% of its electricity from coal sources.

While the UK has done well, France, Spain and Italy are all producing less pollutants and are doing better than the UK.

No confusion at all, the UN has requested no more coal power stations which countries like Germany and China has clearly ignored. Human deaths from air pollution were much less in the UK than France, Spain and Italy as measured in 2015. Italy was particularly bad, Bulgaria dreadful.

 

[colognehornet]

There is no defence whatsoever for the German government's position on this. As is well known the biggest surface hole in Europe is at Garzweiler - between Cologne, Aachen and Mönchengladbach, where lignite open cast mining has transformed the landscape into a lunar one. I have been there often enough and tasted the persuasion of police batons on a few occasions for my troubles. I can do no more than protest, and we, as a party, can do no more than to try to bring about a speedy end to this. Germany should be more subjected to criticism for its reliance on open cast mining - but, unfortunately, Britain and Brexit have taken such a centre stage over the last few years that this has slipped under the radar. Per head Germany has the second highest emissions within the EU (whatever the intentions or plans for the future may be) - only Belgium is higher. As long as we have a government which is in the hands of the car industry this will continue to be the case - and a population which takes such things as speed controls as an offence against human rights. The bright side is that the Green Party here is polling at around 24% and we can, maybe, bring this present coalition to an end. But it is not enough to be pointing the finger elsewhere ie. at some other country because it is people as consumers who are destroying the environment, not governments.

 

[superhorns]

There is no defence whatsoever for the German government's position on this. As is well known the biggest surface hole in Europe is at Garzweiler - between Cologne, Aachen and Mönchengladbach, where lignite open cast mining has transformed the landscape into a lunar one. I have been there often enough and tasted the persuasion of police batons on a few occasions for my troubles. I can do no more than protest, and we, as a party, can do no more than to try to bring about a speedy end to this. Germany should be more subjected to criticism for its reliance on open cast mining - but, unfortunately, Britain and Brexit have taken such a centre stage over the last few years that this has slipped under the radar. Per head Germany has the second highest emissions within the EU (whatever the intentions or plans for the future may be) - only Belgium is higher. As long as we have a government which is in the hands of the car industry this will continue to be the case - and a population which takes such things as speed controls as an offence against human rights. The bright side is that the Green Party here is polling at around 24% and we can, maybe, bring this present coalition to an end. But it is not enough to be pointing the finger elsewhere ie. at some other country because it is people as consumers who are destroying the environment, not governments.

Governments are able to make decisions, the UK being the first to commit to reaching net-zero carbon emissions. I thought you might have been whacked over the head a few times, only joking

 

[superhorns]

If there is any doubt about Boris's green credentials it will be dispelled today with the announcement of banning house coal and sales of 'wet' wood for home burners. Wood with more than 20% moisture content will not be able to be purchased as fire-ready.
I'm lucky, I cut down seventy five 30 year old conifers a few years ago which has given me many years of well seasoned logs. This will not go down very well in rural areas. Boris's girlfriend seems to be having quite an influence.

 

[superhorns]

If there is any doubt about Boris's green credentials it will be dispelled today with the announcement of banning house coal and sales of 'wet' wood for home burners. Wood with more than 20% moisture content will not be able to be purchased as fire-ready.
I'm lucky, I cut down seventy five 30 year old conifers a few years ago which has given me many years of well seasoned logs. This will not go down very well in rural areas. Boris's girlfriend seems to be having quite an influence.

You must log in or register to see images

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

A huge day for the protesters as the High Court rules that the UK government was acting illegally in giving the go ahead to the third runway at Heathrow. What was seen as the key to becoming a global Britain has been well and truly shafted as the emissions from an extra 260,000 flights were thought to be more dangerous than the loss of economic growth in the country. As the court showed, governments cannot go around signing up to international treaties, then trying to break them when it doesn't suit. This ruling might also be felt in other parts of the world as the case studies brought forward will be available to use as evidence when other environmentally bad schemes are proposed. So will the UK government see this ruling as a way to be let off the hook, or will it appeal the ruling? We will watch with interest.

 

[Hornet-Fez]

A huge day for the protesters as the High Court rules that the UK government was acting illegally in giving the go ahead to the third runway at Heathrow. What was seen as the key to becoming a global Britain has been well and truly shafted as the emissions from an extra 260,000 flights were thought to be more dangerous than the loss of economic growth in the country. As the court showed, governments cannot go around signing up to international treaties, then trying to break them when it doesn't suit. This ruling might also be felt in other parts of the world as the case studies brought forward will be available to use as evidence when other environmentally bad schemes are proposed. So will the UK government see this ruling as a way to be let off the hook, or will it appeal the ruling? We will watch with interest.

I'm just wondering, hoping really, that there may be a further challenge to hs2 on the same principle. We're being lied to. Again.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I'm just wondering, hoping really, that there may be a further challenge to hs2 on the same principle. We're being lied to. Again.

I don't think we know at the minute if the same criteria apply to HS2 as to the third runway. Chris Grayling was at the heart of the runway permission, and he was shown not to have taken the Paris accord on climate change into account. I suspect that the go ahead for HS2 was before that international agreement. My old village in Northants is in turmoil currently with road closures, diversions taking heavy lorries through the lanes, and steep hills with numerous bends being used by earth moving equipment. I doubt that anything will stop HS2 now. What this ruling will mean is future major roads or large projects will have to show what damage they will do and how it is planned to mitigate the effects.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

I don't think we know at the minute if the same criteria apply to HS2 as to the third runway. Chris Grayling was at the heart of the runway permission, and he was shown not to have taken the Paris accord on climate change into account. I suspect that the go ahead for HS2 was before that international agreement. My old village in Northants is in turmoil currently with road closures, diversions taking heavy lorries through the lanes, and steep hills with numerous bends being used by earth moving equipment. I doubt that anything will stop HS2 now. What this ruling will mean is future major roads or large projects will have to show what damage they will do and how it is planned to mitigate the effects.

if the money planned for HS2 was sepnt on the train network as a whole... it would go some way to brining the whole newtwork into the modern era... and millions of commuters would benefit...

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

if the money planned for HS2 was sepnt on the train network as a whole... it would go some way to brining the whole newtwork into the modern era... and millions of commuters would benefit...

One might argue that driving a few lorries in and out of Dover was money being used instead of completing flood defences where there was a known risk.

 

[Hornet-Fez]

Got it all to come - just had the road widening plans emailed to the office today. We're right at the heart of it. I'm kinda dreading the journey to work, a whole 5.5miles, for the next few years.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

You must log in or register to see images

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

If there is anything good at all about the coronavirus, it is that it has led some business leaders to say that the global supply chains have become too long. Sending goods halfway around the world is not good for the environment, but that has not been their concern so much as the demands to keep their companies running. We have seen car manufacturers grinding to a halt because the parts they need haven't turned up. Looking at some medicines you will find that they come from China and already the supply of some of those has dried up. Let us reduce this travel to continents has been said, Europe to supply Europe, Asia to supply Asia, America to supply the Americas. We have seen the stock markets around the world crashing and it will be some event like this that will bring change about.

 

[superhorns]

If there is anything good at all about the coronavirus, it is that it has led some business leaders to say that the global supply chains have become too long. Sending goods halfway around the world is not good for the environment, but that has not been their concern so much as the demands to keep their companies running. We have seen car manufacturers grinding to a halt because the parts they need haven't turned up. Looking at some medicines you will find that they come from China and already the supply of some of those has dried up. Let us reduce this travel to continents has been said, Europe to supply Europe, Asia to supply Asia, America to supply the Americas. We have seen the stock markets around the world crashing and it will be some event like this that will bring change about.

Brexit will also have an effect of more UK self sufficiency. There has been a steady return of manufacturing business from China back to the UK over the last few years. One of the problems of China products is the long delivery times and rising cost of labour.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Brexit will also have an effect of more UK self sufficiency. There has been a steady return of manufacturing business from China back to the UK over the last few years. One of the problems of China products is the long delivery times and rising cost of labour.

That is good for imports, but where will all these new markets be for exports?

 

[superhorns]

That is good for imports, but where will all these new markets be for exports?

Have you not read about all the countries lining up free trade deals with the UK?

 

[yorkshirehornet]

Reminder folks to keep this thread on task.........

The planet is a holistic ecosystem ..... no place for binary dialectics

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I'm just wondering, hoping really, that there may be a further challenge to hs2 on the same principle. We're being lied to. Again.

I see that Chris Packham is to launch a legal challenge over the building of HS2, using similar arguments to those that brought about the Heathrow ruling.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

I see that Chris Packham is to launch a legal challenge over the building of HS2, using similar arguments to those that brought about the Heathrow ruling.

Very interesting..... given the leagl challenge was successful with Heathrow.... maybe, just maybe, the Govt may be looking for a way out too.......