Not sure we would be having this conversation if we had beaten AV and were sitting in 6th position? We would probably be discussing which part of Europe we would like to visit. It is a very fine line between success and relative "failure" these days!
I doubt he's in any danger of getting the sack. Worth restating that, whilst we lost less players last summer than the year before, on this occasion one of them was arguably the best right back in England, while the other was one of the most influential midfielders in the league. To replace that pair plus Alderwanker, and have your first choice keeper out for half a season, and to then expect an improvement on last season. ...well that's asking a lot.
Despite my doubts, I can't see Ron being sacked. Mid-table is hardly beneath us and I'm sure we will finish a bit higher than that. Nicola isn't here any more to wield the axe.
I wasn't expecting any improvement on last season. We're 12th and going backwards. If we lose the next three we will probably be 15th (possibly 16th or 14th, but unlikely) and still going backwards. Then we'd have West Ham away, which I can't see us winning either. He'd be in huge danger of getting sacked if he lost the next three. No points, or one point, in the next four sees us in real danger of being dragged into the relegation battle. Like I said, hopefully he can turn things around quickly. I'm not panicking and I don't have particularly high expectations. After watching us in League One (attended every home game when we were L1, I was able to attend more then than I am now) I'm realistic. Let's see what happens. If the board is ruthless (and has an option lined up) then he'll be gone in three games if he doesn't get a win, certainly in four. Like I said, hopefully he can turn it around. After all my username is his nickname, and he is my picture, so it's not like I am out to get him! I just think he's put himself into a bad position now and is under pressure for the first time.
This. Last year was a remarkable achievement...selling, then acquiring and integrating half a squad in the course of a summer and pushing on to better. It's also very difficult to pull off year on year; spend enough time on a tightrope and even the best are likely to fall off.
Can't believe this thread is still being taken seriously. Last year we lost a couple of key players in the summer, started well, had a blip Nov / Dec and finished a little stronger. This year we lost a couple of key players in the summer, started well, had a blip Nov / Dec and and hopefully will finish a little stronger. We're 2 points off 6th place with a stronger squad than last year. Ron is no closer to being sacked than I am being the next manager.
In the past our marquee signings were players past their sell by dates at the clubs we signed them from. Jimmy Gabriel (Everton), Alan Ball (Arsenal), Kevin Keegan (Hamburg), Peter Shilton (Stoke or Notts Forest). Now the former greats head for the USA, the Middle East, the Indian PL and China for the megabucks which is so sad. A current player who seems to be fading fast is Rooney. IMO he would be ideal for a club like Leeds if they could address their ownership and managerial issues. For Saints, my ideal signing would be Xavi. Another player who must be fast approaching his Bayern exit is Robben who must be around 32 or 33 but just oozes quality. Could RK persuade his fellow countryman to join the ship?
Ron has to be about the safest manager in the PL...we are in no danger of relegation and aren't so full of ourselves that we'd think mid-table a disgrace. We have a long term plan...short term gratification would be great, but isn't the be all and end all at Saints.
Am I the only person who doesn't think our squad is stronger? (Assuming you leave out jay and Fraser)
No, I largely agree. We have a bit more depth, but much of it isn't of the highest quality, and we've subtracted top-end talent in the process. Toby/van Dijk at CB is a push, RB is a downgrade, going from Schneiderlin/Cork to Romeu/Clasie looks like a downgrade, so the additional depth is really only Caulker/Juanmi/Martina, two of whom don't really merit playing time. Edit: and, I guess, the return of Gaston, but it's not a dissimilar story to Juanmi...neither seems to fit particularly well, and consequently neither is more than bench fodder.
For FFS guys we're just plucky family friendly little old Southampton. There to be mugged of our best players and routinely stuffed. We were mistakenly sold a dream and now the reality is sinking in. We are oh so lucky to have Ron as he is more than we deserve and better than a club of our lowly status warrants. We just got a bit too big for our boots and we are back now in the place we belong. We will never amount to anything. We will always be just a pokey little provisional club on a par with the likes of Norwich and Swansea. We have to learn to know our place and to not get above our station. The big boys know how to put us back in our place. In the minds of football pundits and football fans there is a pecking order and we are pretty well down near the bottom. The media know how to patronise us and to quickly identify when we have players that are far to good for a team like ours. Get used to it. Our owners have and have cynically identified how to make money out of an also ran sort of club. We might win a cup every one hundred years or so but in the great scheme of things Southampton FC is just a minnow in a sea of sharks.
Yeah well getting too ambitious is just so destructive and demoralising. Think small stay safe. Keep your head down. Know your place.
I'm sure you're not the only one. Much depends on how you define stronger squad. Individually, I don't think any starting 11 is quite as good as last years with Toby, clyne and Morgan. But we have more depth and therefore more capable of dealing with injuries and suspensions. What is perhaps a little frustrating is that 3 or 4 of the new signings, whilst undoubtedly good signings, have or adapted as quickly as last years batch.
When I was young I used to be employed to give motivational speeches. Now I am just a cynical old git that has seen it all and has had enough of disappointment. Just aim low then you don't get disappointed.
With all the uncertainty and angst going on in the world at the moment it is always reassuring to come in after an evening out and read some of the complete and utter **** that is spouted on this forum. Thank you and good night.
Love the sentiment Mowgli, but Ron has to be closer to being sacked than you are to being next manager purely because it requires the vacancy for you to then be eligible On a side-note, I agree he's not that likely to get sacked (40/1 next to go), and there will most likely be a mutual parting of ways after a couple of mid-table (8th-14th place) finishes. Koeman may then say he wasn't given the resources to compete, and the board may respond to say he didn't kick us on quite as well as they expected and point at a lack of youth development (future sales).
No LL, you're not the only one, and perhaps we're just having a transitional season where we'll finish similar to last year but no higher. However, to improve we're a lot of eggs in the basket of Fraser and Jay being fit next year, players like Juanmi kicking on, and finding solid replacements who settle instantly for Wanyama, and Mane, another CB of starting quality to compete with Jose for when his legs eventually go, and an RB to effectively compete with or start in front of Cedric. Unless we get lucky with the majority of these things, it's largely just the same rinse and repeat every season. Sell our best 2-3, replace cheaply (comparative to other clubs who run at a loss) and cross ones fingers.
I think he's a good manager. I also thought Pochettino was a good manager. We've had some questionable loans/purchases that I think RK or Erwin had a hand in -- Martina, Elia. But then I felt like we largely got Alderweireld because of RK. And Clasie (more later). OTOH, MP probably had a big say in bringing in Oswaldo and that was a disaster. Also, while the Black Box supposedly had already identified Tadic and Pelle, I think RK had some input/influence there. I think MP did a better job of playing the young players. But I think that the impact of this might be overstated. Shaw was just good. I think Chambers to some extent as well. There's no doubt that MP still made a greater effort. I don't doubt his commitment. Tactically, I would rate them about equally. MP stuck with one style, but he drilled the players on it well and it was well-organized and used to great effect. But it was one-dimensional. I think RK is more flexible, and allows players more freedom on the pitch. I think people tend to notice the supposed bad moves more than the good. For example, I don't feel like there were that many complaints prior to the Villa match as to the lineup. And he put on Juanmi and Romeu as subs and both played well and Romeu grabbed the goal for us. And yet, after the game there was much carping over RK's choices... and oddly complaints about Clasie being bad even though he didn't play. Both seem to rank highly in man management as the players were very loyal to MP and him leaving may have hastened some departures to some extent. OTOH, it seems like Clasie loves RK and otherwise might not have come here. Elia certainly loved him. Quite frankly, RK has had to deal with things MP never had to. He never saw Shaw, Lallana, Clyne, Schneiderlin, etc. poached because he left before his players did. And that has to be a big point in RK's favor for me. He came to a team in disarray and fixed it. And handled a second exodus quite well. MP quit. And did it in a bad way, IMO. I like them both. But I also think that neither are irreplaceable. My opinion is that bad managers are really, really bad and can single-handedly wreck a team. But there are many managers who are good and somewhat interchangeable. It's kind of a matter of timing as far as having the right talent, and also having the right mix of tactic/personality with the squad. Honestly, I think Adkins was better than both when he was here. Toward the end of his tenure, I basically for the first time ever had gotten to the point where I just gave him carte blanche and never questioned his moves. At the same time, it's kind of hard for me to see foreign players and real world class talents digging his Adkinisms or responding to his style. Or him being able to attract the same quality of players. So Adkins was the best during his time, but doubt he would be the best now. As for the squad being weaker... yes, in my opinion it is. And no, Clasie is not Schneiderlin and that hurts. But let's be real. It's crazy to expect that anyone was going to come in and just step into Schneiderlin's shoes. We did extremely well just to replace Alderweireld with VVD. You lose Lallana, Lovren (he was good for us, after all), Alderweireld, Clyne, Chambers, Schneiderlin, an icon like Lambert, and Shaw, your first string GK and promising young striker gone through injuries... it is almost impossible to not get weaker. Even if you could somehow replace the talent, the massive amount of turnover in terms of players having to settle in and stuff is going to hurt you. It's frankly amazing that we aren't in a relegation battle right now. I feel like it's good for managers to only stay 3-4 years. I think shake-ups help energize things, and players become better picking up different things from different people. Otherwise it all gets a bit stale. So if RK goes at the end of his contract, I'm okay with it despite liking him. I would be really nervous that we get one of the bad managers, but if we don't we will be fine. The issues facing this club have to do with the business side of things. Can we generate enough revenue via marketing and the make right investments (in players or otherwise) to grow into a larger club? I don't know, but it's not really RK's purview. But that is what will make or break the club. For now, for the spending level/size we currently are, things are being extremely well-run top-to-bottom, and that includes the manager.
