So in the meantime BR has to get the best out of what he has. Getting the best out of Gerrard is part of that (and the likes of Carroll as well).
Carroll - yes Gerrard - less so because he's been poor for the past few seasons. We all talk about how much we want to see the likes Suso and Sterling starting more to replace the likes of Downing and Adam etc because they have performed poorly. The same should apply to Stevie.
Gerrard owes us a big performance on Sunday, he was beyond poor in the first game ( and in my fantasy team ). But he does need to show that he can thrive in the free role or else he will need to learn more discipline and drop back deeper.
Bluff, what side of the bed did you get out of? Gerrard showed during the Euros that he does not nave to LEARN discipline. Neither you nor I know just what his instructions were during the first game or how he had to adapt as things transpired around him!
So he played well then? No he did not, he even held his hands up after the game in his interview! It is pretty clear that in Rodgers system he will be the AM and have room to roam around. I should have been more clear on the discipline part, he says he is still a ways off playing the "scholes" role, a bit deeper but dictating the play, if he can't perform in the free role, then he needs to learn to use his mind and technique instead of his body in the deeper role. As has been mentioned I would love to see Suso come in now and again for Gerrard and see how he performs with Suarez, Borini, etc and how he performs in a prem game.
I often read this "Gerrard lacks discipline" line and I think I must be watching a different player, or a different game. I think Gerrard has shown a great deal of discipline over the years and has played where he's been put. Sometimes he roams, but I believe that was all part of the plan. A player of his ability needs the freedom to exploit that ability and not be on a short tether, but when needs must he can do it. It's just that when he does, understandably he has a less noticeable effect on the game. I think the reason he struggled to look good for England was because he was played deeper in order to let Frank play further forward and hog the limelight. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think that criticism of him is a little unfair.
If you want to destroy the potential that Suso has then go right ahead and play him. He's still a kid and is nowhere near ready to play a full Prem game let alone a pivotal role. The absolute last thing that Gerrard should do is drop back
^ This He is not playing the 'star role' anymore - he is being asked to do a specific job and that is why he is not giving stand out performances. Personally, I think now we have Allen and Lucas holding and dictating he should be allowed to play further forward and cause problems.
He has to be an AM but if he doesn't put the performances in then we just keep him in? I love Gerrard, think he is top 5 of the all time greats, but he needs to get back to creating more in the attacking 3rd, getting in the box, popping in with goals and assists, especially if he has a free role. He does this at times but just want to see it on a more consistent level, especially if he is injury free. How would it be destroying Suso potential to give him some prem time here and there? Robinson did alright at that age last year, Owen, Fowler, Macca, Gerrard even. Not saying throw him in but surely his talent merits a few minutes here and there? How will we know where he stands if we don't at least see where he is at? Sterling played against Gomel so why can't Suso do the same? Totally agree on not having Gerrard drop back. The hollywood passing was one of the biggest things he seemed to always look for in that role.
do you think he should play attacking midfield or right side forward? if gerrard doesn't learn to play a 4-3-3 then we're in trouble cos as much as lamprd just trots forward with the aim of just getting in the box he is still playing the required 3 in the middle when defending. if we play 3 in the middle yet get outmanned we have to ask about that.... for me i'm not that sure gerrard is up to the pace of the prem, gomel was easy, west brom exposed a lot of people and not just gerrard. suso must get some expereince soon as he's not learning anything now at his current level... we need to think on that.
This discussion sums it up for me. Between us we have several hundred years of watching Liverpool play football but we still disagree, not only on what we should do but even on our interpretations of what we are watching. BR has been in the job five minutes and is expected to sort it all out immediately. He needs time.
Another problem we have is the gap between our promising youth coming up and the senior players. As I said, don't just throw Suso in, but when he is absolutely killing it for the reserves, scoring goals, assists, set pieces, etc then he should get a chance to see if he can fill the AM role. If not, then let's send him out on loan to challenge him further, look at what it did with Shelvey. We do need a bit more quality as well and the balance of the team is an issue. The fact that we had to play Johnson at LB shows that ( quote from Hamann that as well).
Gerrard's contribution over the past few seasons has been 'average' He cannot pass short as well as anyone. He is on the same wavelength but his short game is nothing like a Scholes, Xavi, Iniesta , Silva , Nasri... His injury record I agree is an issue.. Having an entire spine of sicknotes is part of the reason you are inconsistent Keane, Ince and Vieira were more comparable players to Gerrard, all 'covered every blade of grass', all but finished by 32 He is not likely to win the Prem or CL at Liverpool. Easier said than done to sell Cole/Downing. You would move on from the 'nagging', no player is bigger...
Nobody said that he shouldn't get a taste in the right games for a limited period of time. What I thought that you were implying was that he should play full games as a creative midfielder. It's really far too early to start writing-off players - especially one who has more football skill than the vast majority of the side put together.
Not writing him off, just that he needs to get back to some of his attacking play he used to do. When was the last time you saw Gerrard shoot from outside of the box for example? Doesn't even have to be a cracker, but that shot keeps the defense honest, makes them step to you and then you can slot balls through, get the ball out wide with more space between the keeper and defense to put the ball in for someone to run onto. Little things like that Gerrard used to always be able to do, legs or not. I still have faith in him and if he can be healthy, hit a nice run of games I am sure we will see it again, just want him to be adventureous again in the attacking 3rd and gamble a bit more.
would it be fair to say that the issue at hand would be how worried some people are that downing and gerrard seem automatic picks no matter what while players who did impress like shelvey are now benched? having said that I do really want to say 4-3-3- is not 4-2-3-1... some might say its very similar but i nfact there is quite a bit of difference in set up so if we want to see gerrard as AM and doing what he did 5 years ago with torres then i think we'd better think 4-2-3-1... just my opinion as woe betide the full back depending on gerrard to get back into position once he is going forward.... I thought 4-3-3 was all baout setting up passing trinagles between full back, central player and wide forward.
Gerrards every day performances in recent seasons HAVE been average... but at times we've been doing bad he has been the driving force to pick us up. He isn't the ultimate player he once was but is useful as a talisman and his on field drive can change a game. He was poor against wba and it is tempting to judge him on that but don't... give him a few more games... if he is still poor, drop him to the bench and use him as an experience player to turn things round as needed. His salary is high to be a bench warmer...but there is an unwritten iconic value he brings to the club.
