The coaching

[Bodinki]

You really have no idea do you? Why do you think they have been well and truly knocked off there European perch since Guardiola has left, getting thumped 7-0 on aggregate by Bayern. The players he had were very good, but they weren't invincible, he was just so good that he made them look like they where. Look at how Bayern got about them last season when Guardiola wasn't there

Really?
And it has nothing to do with Bayern becoming a stronger team?
2 reasons for Barca's downfall from the top and none of them involve managers.
1) Other teams (ie Bayern for one) strengthening.
2) People learnt how to play against Barca and beat them. When Pep is successful somewhere else where he doesnt have the best players on the planet, then I'll be impressed

 

[Chief]

Irreversible was the wrong word to use but its potentially going to be very difficult to break back into the top 4 if we continue on this downward spiral. Its been done in the past briefly but there 7 sides capable of competing with us for those 4 spots. I simply dont have faith in moyes' ability to acheive that.

Winning trophies is just a bonus as a supporter but I see no reason why we have to accept whats going on at the club. Moyes may well turn it around but I see nothing to suggest that. I hope I am wrong and in a few years you lot can laugh at me.

I don't think it would be that difficult. Depends on who we would get if he needs replacing, if we go for Sven or Ian Holloway then yes players might think **** that but if we went for Klopp or any manager of repute all they have to do is make some adjustments to the squad and go again.

One poor season under Moyes doesn't suddenly turn us into Blackburn Rovers or Leeds.

 

[Drogs]

Guardiola the best manager. So ****ing stupid.

 

[Tobes]

please!!! You could have put Matth in charge of that Barca team and they would have won just as much.
No management was required.
They had one tactic, which was that they were better than every other team around by a country mile so just owned them.

Utterly clueless

If you can't appreciate what Pep did at Barca then you really shouldn't be commenting on football.

Pep took a talented side & added the pressing, high energy style that created the best club side there's ever been.

No co-incidence that after he left, they've never hit the same heights.

Not going to get into a pointless pissing contest about 'who's the best' but to decry his achievements in such a flippant manner is contemptible.

 

[Chief]

Utterly clueless

If you can't appreciate what Pep did at Barca then you really shouldn't be commenting on football.

Pep took a talented side & added the pressing, high energy style that created the best club side there's ever been.

No co-incidence that after he left, they've never hit the same heights.

Not going to get into a pointless pissing contest about 'who's the best' but to decry his achievements in such a flippant manner is contemptible.

Agree 100% and more if that's possible.

Guardiola is quite clearly a brilliant manager.

 

[Drogs]

Utterly clueless

If you can't appreciate what Pep did at Barca then you really shouldn't be commenting on football.

Pep took a talented side & added the pressing, high energy style that created the best club side there's ever been.

No co-incidence that after he left, they've never hit the same heights.

Not going to get into a pointless pissing contest about 'who's the best' but to decry his achievements in such a flippant manner is contemptible.

People have found a way to play against them and their players have declined along with the departure of Pep who they all loved. A combo of these is why they're currently not hitting the heights they were, not just all down to Pep going.

 

[Tobes]

People have found a way to play against them and their players have declined along with the departure of Pep who they all loved. A combo of these is why they're currently not hitting the heights they were, not just all down to Pep going.

Not many found a way of playing against them when he was there though eh???

The rest of that is a total contradiction, the players loved him, so now they're playing not quite as well, isn't that what a manager is paid to do? i.e. get the best out of his squad???

 

[Drogs]

Not many found a way of playing against them when he was there though eh???

The rest of that is a total contradiction, the players loved him, so now they're playing not quite as well, isn't that what a manager is paid to do? i.e. get the best out of his squad???

Look, I'm not denying how good a manager he is, I just don't think he's the best. You think the way they played was solely down to him? Barca had been working towards the style of play they accomplished for a few years prior to Pep, with Pep being a part of the coaching process. He was also gifted the best squad of all time, most of whom had been growing up playing this kind of football during the tenure of their president who set out to install this kind of play due to his admiration for Cruyff's Barca in the 80s.

As for the contradiction, how is it? I'm not using those three things against each other. Pep is an excellent man manager and absolute legend of Barca and was before even managing them. Him leaving was obviously going to have a negative effect due to this, and the fact he is a good manager.

Barca were also quite clearly declining when Pep was still there, in Pep's last season they were **** in comparison to prior years.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Pep was and is a very good manager, no doubt. But when you get given the squads he had at Barca and now Bayern plus a fair bit of cash too, how can you fail?

He has managed in 2 leagues when at each time there were only ever 2 sides capable of winning the league. At Barca he inherited Xavi and Inniesta in their prime and one of the best ever in Messi. Can he ever be considered a great without redeveloping a struggling side or producing amazing underdog victories? Would Pep have taken Porto and an unfancied Inter to C.L glory, I seriously doubt it.

 

[Tobes]

Pep was and is a very good manager, no doubt. But when you get given the squads he had at Barca and now Bayern plus a fair bit of cash too, how can you fail?

He has managed in 2 leagues when at each time there were only ever 2 sides capable of winning the league. At Barca he inherited Xavi and Inniesta in their prime and one of the best ever in Messi. Can he ever be considered a great without redeveloping a struggling side or producing amazing underdog victories? Would Pep have taken Porto and an unfancied Inter to C.L glory, I seriously doubt it.

Utter ****e.

He won 3 league titles & 2 CL's in 4 years ffs.

He also lifted a total of 14 pots in 4 seasons.....

As I said earlier, I'm not interested in discussing 'who's best' as it's a pointless dick waving contest, but Guardiola is a fine manager & anyone who says he isn't has got rocks in their head

 

[Bodinki]

Pep was and is a very good manager, no doubt. But when you get given the squads he had at Barca and now Bayern plus a fair bit of cash too, how can you fail?

He has managed in 2 leagues when at each time there were only ever 2 sides capable of winning the league. At Barca he inherited Xavi and Inniesta in their prime and one of the best ever in Messi. Can he ever be considered a great without redeveloping a struggling side or producing amazing underdog victories? Would Pep have taken Porto and an unfancied Inter to C.L glory, I seriously doubt it.

This.
He has been handed the best squad in Europe....twice.
No wonder he succeeded.
Not so hard to win La Liga with that squad, especially since the only team you have to compete with is Real.

He is a good manager, but as I said, unless he can build something from nothing like SAF did at Aberdeen and Man Utd, or Mourinho did at Porto (made them European champs) and Chelsea (took a team with no league title in 50 years and won back to back titles) then I will not be impressed.

What aspect of his managing was good? His tactics? They had ONE tactic in his whole tenure. It was a good one, but when did you ever see him change the course of a game with a change of tactics or a timely substitution? We have seen SAF and Jose do this MANY times.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to add that he also sanctioned the most ******ed transfer ever, Eto'o and £46 million for Ibrahimovic??!?! And this was when Eto'o was awesome. He would have been worth £30-40 million alone.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Utterly clueless

If you can't appreciate what Pep did at Barca then you really shouldn't be commenting on football.

Pep took a talented side & added the pressing, high energy style that created the best club side there's ever been.

No co-incidence that after he left, they've never hit the same heights.

Not going to get into a pointless pissing contest about 'who's the best' but to decry his achievements in such a flippant manner is contemptible.

What did he do? Other than be there at the right time?

Nobody is saying hes ****, just that the fact he had 3 of tge worlds 5 best players peak at the same time was a massive help that few, if any manager has ever had.

The fact his assistant and then some randomer have basically continued this (domestically at least) shows that his job wasnt exactly difficult.

To suggest hes the best manager in the world is laughable. The only reason his successors havent had the same level of European success is purely down to xavi getting past his best and Messi being out injured. Take those 2 from peps teams and you get the same outcome.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Not many found a way of playing against them when he was there though eh???

The rest of that is a total contradiction, the players loved him, so now they're playing not quite as well, isn't that what a manager is paid to do? i.e. get the best out of his squad???

Mourinho did, right when Barcelona were at their very very best.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Utter ****e.

He won 3 league titles & 2 CL's in 4 years ffs.

He also lifted a total of 14 pots in 4 seasons.....

As I said earlier, I'm not interested in discussing 'who's best' as it's a pointless dick waving contest, but Guardiola is a fine manager & anyone who says he isn't has got rocks in their head

Yes his record on paper is brilliant but again, he did it with the best team around at the time, a team he largely inherited. He is a very good manager but for me he hasn't proven himself in the way that Jose, Ferguson, Capello, Ancelotti have done.

He's shown he can get the best out of the best team, nothing more. His C.L wins were far less impressive than what Jose has achieved with much lesser teams (and RDM for that matter).

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Yes his record on paper is brilliant but again, he did it with the best team around at the time, a team he largely inherited. He is a very good manager but for me he hasn't proven himself in the way that Jose, Ferguson, Capello, Ancelotti have done.

He's shown he can get the best out of the best team, nothing more. His C.L wins were far less impressive than what Jose has achieved with much lesser teams (and RDM for that matter).

RDM.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Anyone, even moyes would have achieved great things witg that Barcelona side.

I imagine peps team talks were very quiet. Right at the last second he'd tell his players to play their game and pass the ball to Messi as often as possible.

 

[UnitedinRed]

RDM.

Tbf rdm's achievements are similar to Rafa benitez'

Took a side unlikely to win the champions league to victory and then dragged them down the League. Rdm was a little faster mind but both massively overachieved early on.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Tbf rdm's achievements are similar to Rafa benitez'

Took a side unlikely to win the champions league to victory and then dragged them down the League. Rdm was a little faster mind but both massively overachieved early on.

Tbf Benitez has won trophies at 3 different clubs.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

I think you've hit it well on the head there Tobes.

We've gotten so used to attractive attacking football and never say die under SAF that Moyes feels pressured to deliver the same. He could (and indeed did) mastermind a fair few victories like Mourinho did last night, quite a few of them against City in recent years in fact. But he's trying to move away from that style, and it's going to take a bit of time.

I think depending on how the rest of this season goes he may reassess in the summer and look to go back to basics to try and get the results first, style second.

Not sure if changing coaches will help tbh. Mourinho has surrounded himself with yes men who are an even less experienced and recognised bunch of coaches than Moyes has, and it hasn't really hindered him that much. Someone like Rene or Queroz might help him, but then it may just encourage him to go defensive that much sooner.

Where's the photo of the girls on our board, Swatrby Boy?

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

RDM.

Someone's missed the point!