All boards make mistakes.....A good board would know & learn when they make mistakes. I'm afraid that the buck stops with SL, he appointed the current board which looks to me to be yes men not ones that are unable to make their own decisions. Since the departure of GJ and SL moving overseas the club has taken a dive backwards. IMO if SL wants to achieve the progress of our club the way he has always said, he needs to come back to Bristol for a couple of years and sort things out.... First Job would be to look for a decent management team..
Nobody has addressed my earlier question - or doesn't anyone know? How does Steve Lansdown support the club financially? If it's reporting a loss and cash is required to fund that loss, then it would suggest that he's funding the club via some sort of loan faciltiy. Is he (the board) issuing further share capital and then purchasing additional equity himself to provide some of the necessary cash, or is the club's on demand loan exposure increasing?
My post about Dave Whelan was not a disguised request for "sacking the board" but a plea that someone is recruited preferably at board level with a background of playing or managing professional football. Whether this is a Director of Football or Chief Executive or just a member of the board is irrelevant. I would not envisage this appointment to infringe or hamper the Footbal Manager but to help him in his job and to encourage the rest of the board to start thinking along football lines rather than other commercial enterprises. Football is and never will be a business like any other. It's product is emotional for the customers (fans), and it is something unlike electricity or fuel or food or clothing in that it is not necessary for the sustainment of life. To draw a parallel; Sainsbury's or M&S or British Gas do not need to be constantly, on a weekly or even daily basis, telling the public about their business plans. If football fans do not get daily information about Bristol City or any other club in the country, then some will think that the club will cease to exist by the end of the week. And the longer the silence goes on, the more paranoid we all become. We need someone at the top who has a deep knowledge / understanding of professional football and footballers and supporters. Yet with some proven business acumen outside of the game. Only then will Bristol City really begin to relate with it's supporters in a meaningful way.
Steve Lansdown has covered losses via loans turned into shares. Losses have increased, but the debt does not. In short Steve Lansdown owes himself money.
And also he is one of the richest owners in UK football inlcuding most of the Premiership. However from our position over the last few years you wouldnt always realise that fact
If that's correct it's excellent and what ownership (responsibility) should be about. If he's capitalising any investment rather than loaning the funds, he should be applauded. Cardiff did just the opposite until the new owners came along. Both Hamman and Ridsdale used other people's money through on demand term loans to fund the club that were always going to come back and haunt us. Thankfully, VT and TG have purchased substantial equity in the club over the past two years and have not burdened the club with debt. In fact, they have paid off a massive amount of old debt and are aiming to be in a debt free situation in the next couple of years. Hope you Bristol City supporters have an owner who feels he can continue with the philosophy of investment through additional equity purchase, and still obtain the success you desire.
Certainly hope so smh. Spending big to go up by borrowing cash in the hope that you do is a massive gamble. If you haven't got the funds available through genuine investment (not borrowing!), clubs are generally better off where they are. The difference comes when wealthy owners are involved and the extent of the personal committment they are prepared to make. Our previous two encumbants never put their own money where their mouths were. For a start, Hamman isn't as wealthy as everyone believes and Ridsdale has little or no personal wealth at all - he was a chancer. The comparison I can draw between our two clubs is that they now both have owners with adequate personal wealth to make it happen, but despite the similarity, there appears to be a difference in philosophy. VT is not a "local" but has personal wealth beyond the dreams of us and is using it, whereas Steve Lansdown is a "local" who has the means to use, but isn't. How far will he go? Will your proposed new stadium be the trigger? In the meantime, it would be a shame to see you slide down a division through what appears to be a lack of action at his level.
I used to enjoy coming across here for a chat, but recently I find this board has become a bit one dimensional. I expect that comment will provoke the "well piss off then" comment (it's bound to happen), but there's more to this game we all love than the "who are we signing" posts. How your (and my) club are run behind the scenes has a distinct bearing on our futures. We nearly didn't have one at all until recently, only a past, and it should be bloody important to everyone who supports their club. Find out and discuss it. You may not be able to do much about it, but at least you will have a better understanding of the difficulties facing the respective boards of directors as they try to go forward. Maybe what I've just said is a bit too strong for some, but that's my feelings on the matter.
Sparkey, it's become one dimensional for a fairly obvious reason... As for your question about how much our benefactor is prepared to invest in the club, this was published in the financial press in 2009 when the new stadium looked like it might happen imminently... Mr Lansdown is also chairman of Bristol City football club and raised £47m through the sale of 23m shares last year in order to help build a new stadium in the city. Obviously that money has been working away somewhere for 3 years and he still owns a very large wheelbarrow load and as of today, they were trading at £7.25 a share Edit:- just checked ****ing hell...!
Cheers POB - thanks for the reply. That reported £47M that Lansdown got from the sale of some of his holdings in Hargreaves Lansdown is his personal cash. It doesn't tell us anything about the amount he's invested in, or loaned to BCFC. If he does have it stashed away then the best of luck to him, but it still doesn't answer the method being employed to fund the club. Has he used some of it to buy additional equity to fund the losses or is he providing it in the form of loans? Loans are debt and repayable, equity (share capital) is only worth anything when you sell it on. Obviously a successful club should generate cash, make it self-sustainable, and increase it's market value, but anything short of that requires continued investment/loans. He could well be someone who will commit his life and finances to the club like Jack Walker at Blackburn and Whelan since at Wigan, but they both went further out on a limb personally than Lansdown appears to be doing at the moment. The distribution of share capital within clubs and the loan committments are always very interesting - anyone got an insight into your club?
I suspect that BCFC may have more shareholders than almost any other club because of the rescue in 1982 when a couple of thousand or more bought small amounts of shares. It does not enable us to outvote the major shareholders who own 99.99% of the club, but it does allow us the right to attend AGM's and voice our opinions direct to those major investors. Whether they then take any notice is up to them but at least if we have serious concerns about something, then we get to say it in front of them,
Debts are turned into equity. BCFC is two companies in reality. Bristol City Football Club & Bristol City holdings [the stadium]. Steve Lansdown is the majority share holder and controller of the former. The latter is Steve Lansdown and one or two other inviduals, but under the control of Steve Lansdown. Bristol City Football Club directors are paid directors v investors, employed by Steve lansdown, except the Chairman Keith Dawe who has a long term stakeholding, but is very much Steve Lansdowns Chairman. Everything/anything significant goes through Steve Lansdown. May be slightly off there, but its close.
Many thanks Clifton, but how do you know debts are turned into equity? Have you seen shareholder registers and breakdowns of the debt/capitalisation ratios over the past few years? The three directors of both companies, Jon Lansdown, Keith Dawe and Doug Harmon are not necessarily major share holders. The fact that Steve Lansdown is no longer a director of either company any more doesn't mean he can't be lending capital rather than purchasing equity. He is the only (100%) shareholder of Bristol City Football Club Ltd, whilst there are 18 individual shareholders making up the share register of Bristol City Holdings Ltd. Not sure about that Holdings company being a vehicle for the new stadium either. It was incorporated in 1980 and was at one time known as BCFC (1982) plc. Its' latest accounts filed May 2011 show cash at bank of only £6K with current liabilities of £12.3 million and a net worth of minus £24.5 million, so Steve certainly hasn't got his £47 million invested in there. BCFC Ltd showed current liabilities at the same date of £23.5 million and a net worth of minus £42 million, with current assets of just one million. I believe you've advised of something like another £14 million in losses again since then which isn't going to make it any better. Looks like some substantial term, or even on demand loans in there as well as the suggested equity. It would be nice to know which, as debt has an incidious way of catching up with you eventually as we've found out ourselves.
There have been loans, and loans turned into equity. There have been significant development costs for Ashton Vale incurred by Bristol City also. The loans lead to Steve Lansdown again. Mr Lansdown asks fans to trust him (and it seems the majority do). Mr Lansdown did give annual presentations to shareholders. The shareholders again appear in the main happy with arrangements. I doubt Bristol City holdings is a vehicle for the new stadium. The land is owned by Vence LPP [Mr Lansdown etc]. I suspect the new stadium wil be in part owned by external investors and in the main Steve Lansdown, with Bristol City being a further business partner ... Its hazy here, but again fans in the main appear happy.
Sparkey, it is a known fact the he purchases more shares every year in the manner previously defined by Cliftonville (BTW, I am a shareholder from 1982). The £47m is doubtless in a fund accumulating somewhere so is probably worth a darn sight more now. According to Hargeaves Landsdown's notifiable director deals, on 7-10-2010 Stephen P Lansdown, Non-Executive Director, also sold (at 429.00p) 13,560,843.00 shares at a value of £58,176,016.47 however he still retains 95.5m at the price previously quoted so in other words, not short a bob... .
Sparkey; He also is now funding Bristol Rugby in their efforts to regain Prem status. He's a football fan who was interviewed outside a stadium in Ukraine wearing an England shirt after a game in the last Euro championship finals. A few years ago, I knew someone who worked for him and he always said he's a really good guy and all his employees thought the same. He has just reiterated that he'll carry on backing Bristol City and I for one (of many) believe and thank him.
Clifton - POB - Cider in foreign climes. Good for Steve Lansdown and you. Not attempting to suggest anything other than a guy has to be a true fan and philanthropist to do what you suggest he is doing - and there are not that many about. Hope he's one and sees it through.
Hi Sparkey. All this fiscal stuff is a bit complicated for me. It wasn't so long ago that we were playing Swansea regularly. I'm led to believe Huw Jenkins didn't spend anywhere near the same money as Lansdown. If correct - Was it luck or did he employ better managers than Lansdown. My view is the latter. Can't be that simple - can it ?
